Is Texas more Western or Southern? (Houston, Austin: college, suburban, required)

[polo89]

Originally Posted by kdogg817

You got your opinion and I got mines...In my book the entire state of FL is southern...

I agree with this, and I explained my reasoning to WestbankNOLA. I think Miami is Southern, but not for YOUR reasons, and not because of some singing black lady with a Southern accent.

[WestbankNOLA]

Originally Posted by polo89

Either way, what does Betty Wright prove?

ummm.. that being a woman in the street and a you know what in the sheets results in no pain, no gain.. hell if I know.


Anyway, Texas and Florida are southern in my book. I really don't care. I'm not walking around shouting to the world that I'm a southerner as if my identity depends on it. I've never even heard southerness discussed until City-Data. It's a topic that never comes up in general conversation, it's just understood that we live in the south. I don't even know anyone who would say "we southerners". For the 1,000,000th time I just don't like when one is excluded and the rest aren't.

[hdwell]

Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA

ummm.. that being a woman in the street and a you know what in the sheets results in no pain, no gain.. hell if I know.


Anyway, Texas and Florida are southern in my book. I really don't care. I'm not walking around shouting to the world that I'm a southerner as if my identity depends on it. I've never even heard southerness discussed until City-Data. It's a topic that never comes up in general conversation, it's just understood that we live in the south. I don't even know anyone who would say "we southerners". For the 1,000,000th time I just don't like when one is excluded and the rest aren't.

Totally agree with you here. Louisianans have the southerness built right in and there is nothing to prove to anyone. The southern topic does not come up in everyday conversation just like you said. Only a few who regularly attend civil war roundtables would be apt to do that. They are out here but I don't know any personally. Figure that is more of a hobby than anything else.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by polo89

I have yet to see this similar cultural aspects besides religion and SOME food. Even the country music is more akin to Western than it is of country music in the Southeast.

Religion, shared history, settlement patterns, self-identification with a region, traditional food made in the kitchen, political voting patterns (i.e. Solid South which was started as Democrat and became in tandem, mostly Republican). Accents and common idiom (i.e. "y'all" and "coke" and "fixin to" and double-models like "might could,etc) Plus a black/white duality that shaped above said politics and social customs. And that just touches the surface. My issue here with you Polo (and keep in mind I respect and consider you a friend), is that while you are quick to list what you see as differences between most of Texas and the southeast (which you apparently define as the South), you never give any real solid historical and cultural reasons why it has more in common with the interior SW or Rocky Mountain states of the true West. But as it is, let me go on a bit...

Country music? What do you mean by this, when you say more Western than Southern? The western extention of country music only supports that Texas (and Oklahoma) are the Western South in a cultural and historical sense. Western swing (ala Bob Wills, etc,) has its roots in the South moved west. Fiddles became more popular as did string guitars. So yes, it evolved into "Country and Western". But it only meant the style moved west. I have a "map" that indicates where most classic country music artists and singers came from, where most music stations played it, the birthplaces of those who did it. etc. And it is solidly in the 11 Old Confederate states plus Oklahoma, Kentucky, and West Virginia.

Point is, the original "western" aspect that combined with "country" did not extend beyond Texas in terms of newly created music and style. Like southeastern settlement itself, it pretty much stopped in Texas. The West of the interior SW and Rocky Mountain states had very little part of ANY of it.

In a different genre, "the blues" originated along the Mississippi Delta. After that, it's strongest bastions spead into Lousisiana and Texas and Alabama, mostly. This fact has been noted before by several posters. JJW and a few others brought up...

On an somewhat different note, Polo (and I respect and consider you a friend), you are quick to mention (as you see them) differences in Texas and the southeast (which, apparently, you view as the definition of the South at large). But you never seem to give any real solid case why it has more in common with the "West" in an historical and cultural sense.

Food? Tex-Mex is somewhat original (and I LOVE it), but not the Mexican food of the true Southwest. Chili sorta the same way. But the classic food stuff -- the real McCoy -- of Texas kitchens are Southern in origin and style. And I dare say, the one that almost ANY native Texan will feel right at home with (analogy intended) might include: pan fried chicken, chicken fried steak, fried catfish, fried okra, black-eyed peas, porkchops, cornbread, cold sliced tomatoes, boiled greens and a good peach cobbler!

Did I leave anything out?

[JimmyJohnWilson]

Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA

Anyway, Texas and Florida are southern in my book. I really don't care. I'm not walking around shouting to the world that I'm a southerner as if my identity depends on it. I've never even heard southerness discussed until City-Data. It's a topic that never comes up in general conversation, it's just understood that we live in the south. I don't even know anyone who would say "we southerners". For the 1,000,000th time I just don't like when one is excluded and the rest aren't.

is missouri southern in your book?

[polo89]

Florida and Texas are Southern. I don't know what the hell Southern culture is, but there Southern. What is Southern culture? I have know ideal. I guess we're all just Southerners by geography, forget confederate flags and all that stuff, we're all Southerners by geography only, because no one knows what Southern culture is.

[WestbankNOLA]

Originally Posted by polo89

Florida and Texas are Southern. I don't know what the hell Southern culture is, but there Southern. What is Southern culture? I have know ideal. I guess we're all just Southerners by geography, forget confederate flags and all that stuff, we're all Southerners by geography only, because no one knows what Southern culture is.

I've always thought there were basic similarities that "southern" areas have in common. The thing is though; Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, etc. have areas that more or less lack these traits. IMO I feel like S Florida and W Texas don't get enough credit for having those traits, whil SE Louisiana gets too much. I can't really speak on N Virginia.

My argument has never been that there is no south as JJW assumed in another thread. My argument has always been just be fair. I get annoyed when people that haven't spent a significant amount of time in an area to speak on life there.

Originally Posted by JimmyJohnWilson

is missouri southern in your book?

I don't know enough about Missouri. From my understanding the extreme southern portion could be.

Do you consider South Florida, New Orleans, Northern Virginia, Northwest Arkansas, Northern Kentucky and El Paso to be southern?

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA

I've always thought there were basic similarities that "southern" areas have in common. The thing is though; Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, etc. have areas that more or less lack these traits. IMO I feel like S Florida and W Texas don't get enough credit for having those traits, whil SE Louisiana gets too much. I can't really speak on N Virginia.

My argument has never been that there is no south as JJW assumed in another thread. My argument has always been just be fair. I get annoyed when people that haven't spent a significant amount of time in an area to speak on life there.



I don't know enough about Missouri. From my understanding the extreme southern portion could be.

Do you consider South Florida, New Orleans, Northern Virginia, Northwest Arkansas, Northern Kentucky and El Paso to be southern?

El Paso is a completely different story from those other places. El Paso truly is a western city and has little to no type of similarities to the south; historically, culturally nor physically.

[JSizzle225]

Texas is neither Western nor Southern. It is Disgusting.

[JimmyJohnWilson]

Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA

Do you consider South Florida, New Orleans, Northern Virginia, Northwest Arkansas, Northern Kentucky and El Paso to be southern?

geographically? technically yes. but culturally hell no.

i used missouri as an example because it shows the that immigration to an area can change its culture and regional affiliation. southern missouri is the only part of the state that remained unaffected. but the entirety of missouri was considered southern. mark twain was from northern missouri.

anyway
-south florida, no because southern culture is a huge minority, at least in miami and fort lauderdale and some suburbs around there (where i have spent significant time)
- el paso, no. the city is 80 percent hispanic, so im guessing that southern culture doesnt dominate
-northern kentucky, northern kentucky is not southern, because most people up there are buckeyes. most people in kentucky refer to those three counties as "southern ohio", and people up there wont even admit that theyre from kentucky and will say that they are from cincinnati.
-northwest arkansas, i dont think northwest arkansas has been overrun by transplants enough not to be dominant southern culture, but i really don know first hand
-new orleans- this would be the toughest one, because new orleans has has been different ever since there WAS southern culture. to new orleans i say "kind of", and heres why. the culture of new orleans is somewhat related to the rest of the southern US, and a lot of new orleans culture has spread to other parts of the southern US (blackening fish seems to exist across the south now even in the upper south). plus new orleans has always been a cool southern vacation destination. i think of it kind of like the las vegas of the south. but is it southern culturally? only kind of

but still when gauging all those states as a whole (including texas, the topic of this discussion) id say they are southern states even though they all have areas that are not part of the greater southern culture region. although that certainly can change. missouri and maryland are pferect examples of this