Texas; is it part of the South or the Southwest? (Houston: restaurant, law)

[soletaire]

I just stick to the tried and true geographical maps...for me, anything in green, that peachish color (plus Houston in Harris county) and maybe the light blue are southern..the rest could go either way.

[SouthernBoy205]

Originally Posted by cBach

Yep, it's something it desperately wants but gets close but just isn't there.

I’ve never heard of that. However, I do find Houston more southern than DFW, hands down.

[cBach]

Originally Posted by Frustratedintelligence

I've never gotten this. Aside from having pine trees, how is Houston significantly more southern than Dallas?

Cajun restaurants, "bayou city" ring a bell?

[Frustratedintelligence]

Originally Posted by cBach

Cajun restaurants, "bayou city" ring a bell?

Those things are only representative of the Gulf south though. Not the entire region.

In my opinion, Houston is a slightly different kind of southern than Dallas is. Just like New Orleans is a different kind of southern compared to Atlanta.

[SouthernBoy205]

Originally Posted by Frustratedintelligence

Those things are only representative of the Gulf south though. Not the entire region.

In my opinion, Houston is a slightly different kind of southern than Dallas is. Just like New Orleans is a different kind of southern compared to Atlanta.

They are different types of southern. More than slightly.

[KathrynAragon]

I don't think of Dallas as a southern city but I do think of Houston as a southern city. I actually live much closer to Dallas than to Houston and I go to that area regularly - several times a month I'm in Dallas or Fort Worth. It just doesn't have a southern vibe to it to me. That's OK though. It definitely has a TEXAS vibe.

[Treasurevalley92]

I think Texas has parts that are Southern and parts that are South Western.

I'm from the North West originally and to me Dallas is absolutely southern. It might be the least "Southern" and least "Texan" of the major cities in Texas, but it certainly isn't Midwestern or Western in either appearance or culture, though both have some influence.

Reasons I think Dallas is southern?

Modern culture:
-Sweet Tea. Up north we don't drink sweet tea, I've still never developed the taste for it, even half and half seems too sweet for me.
-Southern Style Architecture
-Food.
-"Bless your heart" nice. (or passive aggressive) It's different from midwest nice or western individualism.

Historical reasons: (the obvious ones)
-The Confederacy. Yeah, Dallas County was down to join the Confederacy.
-Segregation: and unfortunate historical fact about Dallas. Racism had and does exist up north as well, but segregation is a southern thing.
- Cotton. Dallas grew to prominence largely because of cotton.

Dallas has alot of transplants from all over the US, but it's still a southern city. Chicago didn't cease to be a "Northern" city after the great migration and Dallas hasn't ceased to be southern either.


I've heard before that Dallas is where the East Ends and Fort worth is where the West begins. Culturally I think that is sorta somewhat true, though the real geographical west begins somewhere west of Fort Worth.

If you look at google maps Abilene is about where the map changes from green to brown.

[walker1962]

Its Texas, its not southern. Texas has too many other influences you don't see states to its east.
Remember SIX FLAGS over Texas is not just a slogan its the state's history. Texas has what the states to its east have and more.
Texas has an International border the southern states to the east do not. That's influenced state since its founding.
Texas has resources NONE of the others have or have similar resources in far more abundance.
Texas has greater diversity even compared to Florida.
Texas sheer size makes Texas different and, thus, creating some western influence. Remember El Paso is closer to Los Angeles than it is to Orange, Texas on the eastern border.

Houston is more blue collar than Dallas but then Fort Worth feels its more western but its just less wealthy then Dallas/Plano. Houston has changed more than any city in the Sunbelt in terms of demographics so I can't see it as more "southern" than other big Texas cities. Its more like L.A., D.C. and NYC in its population mix.

To say Texas is a southwest is accurate because it reflects a mix of culture/location/topography.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

-Segregation: and unfortunate historical fact about Dallas. Racism had and does exist up north as well, but segregation is a southern thing.

I just want to point something out. Segregation was not only a southern thing. It was rampant throughout the country, and the northeast, as well as the south.

In Boston until this law passed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberts_v._City_of_Boston

In 1857, the United States Supreme Court ruled that African Americans were inferior to white Americans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott

The Supreme Court of the United States also ruled in 1883 that discrimination by individuals or private businesses is constitutional.

Also during the "Jim Crow" era, AAs were segregated in the southwest as well as the midwest, right alongside the south. Also, Mexican Americans were segregated during this time and in these regions as well.

The US Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of Jim Crow laws in 1896. Not a southern court, the US Supreme Court.

Up until the 1950s, US armed forces had "black units" that were typically led by white officers, but segregated along color lines.

Laws against interracial marriage were in place in many states (not just southern states) till 1967.

One other point - it's easy to say "segregation is an abomination and should be outlawed" (which I happen to believe is a true statement) when nearly everyone where you live is one color (white) anyway. Even today, with more mobility and less lawful discrimination, most of the African American population remains in the South. The majority of states in other regions have five percent or less African American population. As a southerner I really can hardly imagine this but it's true. So while they could pass laws and express moral outrage, they didn't have to actually implement these laws much, if at all. They did not have to live with the realities of integration much.
CensusScope -- Demographic Maps: African-American Population

That being said, of course I am in favor of integration, the Civil Rights Act, and all that. In fact, I live in a very diverse neighborhood, and as a Texan - which I love being - I voluntarily live in one of only four states where white, Non Hispanic folks make up less than 50 percent of the population. But I'm just saying that the demographics of the southern states are a LOT different from the demographics of other regions. A LOT different. And yet, even with significantly fewer African Americans (or other minorities) most other states legally supported and enforced segregation on many levels till well into the 20th century. It just didn't have as much impact or get as much attention because so few minorities lived in many of those areas.

[TheOverdog]

-Sweet Tea. Up north we don't drink sweet tea, I've still never developed the taste for it, even half and half seems too sweet for me.

Sweet tea wasn't really a 'Texas thing' either until really recently. Sweetened with sugar yes, but most restaurants had unsweetened and brought you sugar packets. Now 'sweet tea' is prevalent all the way to southern California.