Texas; is it part of the South or the Southwest? (Houston: living, area)

[spiritof68]

Over Thanksgiving, I was having a discussion with my mother who lives in Dallas. We were debating whether Texas is a Southern or Southwestern State.

I've always regard anything west of Fort Worth part of the Southwest and the beginnings of West Texas.

Mom told me she thought the Southwest would include Dallas and Houston as well but Tyler not so much.

What do y'all think? South or Southwest?

[Mark Senior]

Mom is correct, imo. I live in and 'love' Tyler. It is much more South than Southwest. All the area from Tyler on down to Beaumont is more Southern. You do still see alot of boots, and cowboy hats, and shotgun racks in trucks, especially "out aways" from town, but more Southern imo.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by spiritof68

Over Thanksgiving, I was having a discussion with my mother who lives in Dallas. We were debating whether Texas is a Southern or Southwestern State.

I've always regard anything west of Fort Worth part of the Southwest and the beginnings of West Texas.

Mom told me she thought the Southwest would include Dallas and Houston as well but Tyler not so much.

What do y'all think? South or Southwest?

LOL Through no fault of your own, you don't know what you have just done! This subject has been literally beaten, stuffed, kicked and stomped to death. And on countless threads. If you search, you will find at least a dozen of them. Some of us just groan aloud when we see another one pop up as they go on and on, cause countless arguments and in the end, nothing is ever settled. The same arguments on both sides are presented by the same people and in the end we just agree to disagree. Although we ALL agree that Texas is, first and foremost, TEXAS!

But since the question arose (again *sighs*), to me, Texas -- as a whole -- is essentially (culturally and historically and that entails) -- a Southern state. I think the trans-pecos area is truly Southwestern (i.e. Interior/Desert SW), however.

But in terms of a whole, the state is Southern IMHO. However, it can be called Southwestern too... if by "Southwestern" one means it in the old sense of the term. That is, the western part of the Southern United States. Southern characteristics blended with those of the western frontier era and its legacies (which is quite different from the "Southwest" of New Mexico and Arizona, which is the "southern West"). So in that regard, it is bothSouthern and "Southwestern" (sub-regionally speaking, as in "western South"), and the two are not -- in this sense -- mutually exclusive of one another when it comes to Texas.

Anyway, that is just my studied opinion on it. Others may/will feel different. So let it be whichever, or both, or some combination a person wants it to be. So long as it is remembered it is Texas! I will stick with it to the bitter end, but dad gum if I wish this topic would just go away and be archived! And those interested can just check out the thousands of earlier replies! LOL

[Bo]

FWIW, this thread topic comes up frequently.

Here's a link to one of its earlier incarnations: //www.city-data.com/forum/texas...hwest-not.html

[doctorjef]

Given his forum name it's hardly surprising that TexasReb would always insist on Texas being essentially Southern. As he says, we've had this discussion 1000 times over (seemingly). IMO Texas isn't very well classified within one region of the country. It's not Southern in the same sense as most of the other states of the old Confederacy (I say "most" because Florida is a special case for the last 50 years as well - partly Southern, partly not). My contention would be that everything east of Dallas and Houston is unquestionably Southern in Texas. You then get into a kind of grey zone between Houston and the I-35 corridor. Austin and San Antonio increasingly have a Southwestern character, while I'd consider Waco, Temple, Hillsboro all rather Southern in character. Fort Worth is a creature unto itself, an odd mixture of Midwestern, Western, and Southern -- but certainly not really the South. Dallas and Houston are both too big and cosmopolitan to be neatly part of the surrounding culture outside their city limits (the same would be true of Atlanta, even though Georgia is obviously more unambiguously a Southern state than is Texas). El Paso is surely unequivocally part of the Southwest. Corpus Christi and rest of the Gulf Coast on down toward Brownsville might be classified as "coastal Southwestern" (I know that might seem an oxymoron). The Permian Basin, South Plains and High Plains/Panhandle don't to my mind fit properly into Midwest, Southwest, or South. They are above all West Texas and Texas Panhandle, in varying degrees blending cultural aspects from the surrounding regions of the USA.

But I have to acknowledge that I've been somewhat persuaded by TexasReb's stance in that living now in a Mid-Atlantic border state, I can contrast my own cultural norms - social manners mostly I'd say - with those not so much of native Delawareans but of the Pennsylvanians, Long Islanders and Jersey natives who have moved here and see that if you dichotomise social manners, I identify mine as Southern and all those other folks' as Northern. Since I've lived the greater part of my life in Texas I can only conclude then that there is, if you have to simplify it, something essentially Southern about Texas culture.

[HtownLove]

another one?? Texas is a southern state.

it is on the western/central edge of the south



we had many discussions on this:
//www.city-data.com/forum/gener...-anything.html

the new comers to a state may change the cultural vibe but it does not change the location

But even when asked, most people will tell you that Texas is more like other southern states like Louisiana, Arkansas and Oklahoma, than NM, Arizona or Nevada.

//www.city-data.com/forum/city-...most-like.html

and I can bet ya a zillion dollars that although a good number of Texans may rock cowboy boots, it is only a way of life for a small fraction. My sister rocks hers and she is a Caribbean girl.

I doubt the cowboy lifestyle represents more than 1 million of the 25M Texans here

[doctorjef]

I just re-read the OP and I have to very much disagree that Dallas and Houston would be considered part of the Southwest. Frankly, if you have to force either one into a category, I'd put them in the South. In contrast, if you have to force Austin and San Antonio into one category, I'd place them in the Southwest. I'd be hard-pressed, as I indicated above, to have to categorise Fort Worth as one or the other.

[txstate]

Its a south state with a southwest swagger.

[doctorjef]

Regarding the above map, I just don't see TX as having much in common with LA overall and I've lived in both. The one bit of Texas that does have close cultural links with Louisiana is the Beaumont-Orange-Port Arthur triangle, where many people have French surnames, you occasionally hear Cajun French spoken, and the local cuisine is the same as that of south Louisiana. OTOH, Okla and TX seem to me to be very culturally similar - both have significant Southwestern elements. Ark and TX are only similar in terms of East Texas and Ark.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

I just re-read the OP and I have to very much disagree that Dallas and Houston would be considered part of the Southwest. Frankly, if you have to force either one into a category, I'd put them in the South. In contrast, if you have to force Austin and San Antonio into one category, I'd place them in the Southwest. I'd be hard-pressed, as I indicated above, to have to categorise Fort Worth as one or the other.

I agree partially agree. I would force HOU and DFW in the south, austin is not really all that south west either. it is still more like OKC than tulsa or phoenix.

San Antonio is more of a Mexican town north of the border than a south western town.