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I totally agree with all this. The main argument against dis-allowing "open carry" is the rather lame one (IMHO) that it would give the criminal the advantage. Not withstanding the obvious fact -- as you point out -- a concealed weapon is much harder to reach in truly "do or die" situation than one in easy reach -- the contension of those who oppose it seem to procede from the unsupportable premise that those scum would not pick an easier target than someone openly armed.
While yes, there are some some holsters (especially small back pocket) that allow for the concealed carrier to spring that element of surprise on the thug? (With apologies to John Wayne..."Here's my money...and a little something extra for your trouble! Bang Bang! LOL).
As you indicated, and studies among violent felons bear out, the biggest single reason why a robber/mugger/etc. chose to avoid one potential victim over picking another is the fear of one of them being armed. And obviously they are if they are openly carrying.
Which, it naturally follows, is why mass-killing don't occur in gun-clubs or gunshows or areas/businesses where there is a better than average chance, other patrons might be armed.
By the same token, as these slimes who individually rob/assault are prone to pick the obvious helpless as victims? Then there is always an easier target out there.
*grins* Personally, I love the scenario of an openly armed little old lady!
There has been a lot of discussion on Texas firearms forums concerning getting the Texas Legislature a law to allow the open carrying of firearms in this state.
Currently Texas is one of only seven states (and the District of Columbia) where "open carry" is not allowed.
There are many good points on both sides of the discussion (pro and against), but I would like to get the "non-gun enthusiasts" opinion. So if you would please, could you state your opinion as to whether Texas should have an open carry law or not?
Feel free to post comments on why you voted a certain way.
Thanks! M2
What are you talking about.You can only open carrying of firearms if you hunting and you have to have permit. Have you not seen TV show American Hogger ? They open carrying of firearms but they are hunting.
You not allowed to open carrying of firearms in the city.
What are you talking about.You can only open carrying of firearms if you hunting and you have to have permit. Have you not seen TV show American Hogger ? They open carrying of firearms but they are hunting.
You not allowed to open carrying of firearms in the city.
Maybe I have missed something, but where do you come by this information??? American Hogger? Fine. But is that reality TV show something that trumps the Texas Penal Code?
There is nothing illegal at all for a Texas resident to actually even walk down a busy street with a shotgun or rifle in his/her hands, according to the penal code.
Now, it might (and would, I agree) be a dumb thing to do...from the perspective of it one does, that they are very likely to get detained and questioned and all. In fact, even charged with some Class C misdemenor involving something along the lines of "public alarm" or "disturbing the peace" or whatever.
But there is nothing (unless it has changed since last time I checked), illegal about carrying the gun/rifle, itself.
Now a handgun (pistol)? Yes. That is something different, at present. But even then, and even if one doesn't have a CCL license, one can still openly carry a pistol if you (among a few other considerations), on your own property, private property where one has permission to be, premises under your control, or engaged in a lawful sporting activity where the weapon is commonly used.
Maybe I have missed something, but where do you come by this information??? American Hogger? Fine. But is that reality TV show something that trumps the Texas Penal Code?
There is nothing illegal at all for a Texas resident to actually even walk down a busy street with a shotgun or rifle in his/her hands, according to the penal code.
Now, it might (and would, I agree) be a dumb thing to do...from the perspective of it one does, that they are very likely to get detained and questioned and all. In fact, even charged with some Class C misdemenor involving something along the lines of "public alarm" or "disturbing the peace" or whatever.
But there is nothing (unless it has changed since last time I checked), illegal about carrying the gun/rifle, itself.
Now a handgun (pistol)? Yes. That is something different, at present. But even then, and even if one doesn't have a CCL license, one can still openly carry a pistol if you (among a few other considerations), on your own property, private property where one has permission to be, premises under your control, or engaged in a lawful sporting activity where the weapon is commonly used.
I said if you are hunting you can have gun but you can't have gun in city.The show American Hogger are hunting and on private property. They would not be open carrying if they where in the city.
I don't mean to be disrespectful...but are you for real?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat209
I said if you are hunting you can have gun but you can't have gun in city.
WHAT type gun/rifle are you saying that the "American Hoggers" can't carry in "the city" (what city?). Please cite the prohibition statute in the Texas penal code that backs up what you say.
Quote:
The show American Hogger are hunting and on private property.
And? So? That has been addressed. That one is a no brainer and not even applicable.
Quote:
They would not be open carrying if they where in the city.
LOL I dont know (or care) what "they" would have done in "they" were in "the city"! (what city, fer gosh sakes???)
Tell me what statute/precedent makes it illegal to carry a shotgun/rifle in the "city" without having to first possess a "permit"?
Please explain and do something besides quoting "information" from a silly-assed "reality TV" show.
What are you talking about.You can only open carrying of firearms if you hunting and you have to have permit. Have you not seen TV show American Hogger ? They open carrying of firearms but they are hunting.
You not allowed to open carrying of firearms in the city.
The term "open carry" in this discussion refers to the opposite of concealed carry for handguns.
Texas law does not prohibit the carrying longarms (rifles, shotguns) in public, as the incident up in Temple proves (the Army sergeant wasn't arrested for carrying the AR he had, he was arrested for interfering with the duties of a public official when he failed to comply with the officer's order to disarm, which the officer had every legal right to do).
San Antonio does have an ordinance that prohibits the carrying of loaded longarms on city streets, there has been much debate as to the enforceability of that law given Texas' pre-emption law (a.k.a. Texas Local Government Code - Section 229.002. Regulation Of Discharge Of Weapon which prevents local jurisdictions from imposing ordinances more restrictive than laws passed by the state legislature and, in some cases, rescind local ordinances to ensure uniform firearm laws statewide.
As for open carrying while hunting, it is not the fact that a person is on private property that allows that (as many believe) but the fact that hunting is specifically listed as an exception under Section §46.15. Non-applicability of the Penal Code ("(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity").
For private property, PC §46.02 states it must be "on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control;" so unless it is your property, there must be circumstances under which the non-owner must have some authority over the property such as being a manager or security.
I strongly suggest anyone who carries a firearm in Texas to be very knowledgeable of Texas laws concerning such an activity. Most of the laws reside under §46 of the Penal Code, but as shown some elements can also be found in the Government Code and other areas. You don't have to be a lawyer, but as many have learned the hard way, ignorance of the law never ends well...
The term "open carry" in this discussion refers to the opposite of concealed carry for handguns.
Texas law does not prohibit the carrying longarms (rifles, shotguns) in public, as the incident up in Temple proves (the Army sergeant wasn't arrested for carrying the AR he had, he was arrested for interfering with the duties of a public official when he failed to comply with the officer's order to disarm, which the officer had every legal right to do).
San Antonio does have an ordinance that prohibits the carrying of loaded longarms on city streets, there has been much debate as to the enforceability of that law given Texas' pre-emption law (a.k.a. Texas Local Government Code - Section 229.002. Regulation Of Discharge Of Weapon which prevents local jurisdictions from imposing ordinances more restrictive than laws passed by the state legislature and, in some cases, rescind local ordinances to ensure uniform firearm laws statewide.
As for open carrying while hunting, it is not the fact that a person is on private property that allows that (as many believe) but the fact that hunting is specifically listed as an exception under Section §46.15. Non-applicability of the Penal Code ("(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity").
For private property, PC §46.02 states it must be "on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control;" so unless it is your property, there must be circumstances under which the non-owner must have some authority over the property such as being a manager or security.
I strongly suggest anyone who carries a firearm in Texas to be very knowledgeable of Texas laws concerning such an activity. Most of the laws reside under §46 of the Penal Code, but as shown some elements can also be found in the Government Code and other areas. You don't have to be a lawyer, but as many have learned the hard way, ignorance of the law never ends well...
Cheers! M2
Okay may be you can explain it better but may be I'm getting confused with open carry laws vs concealed carry laws.
In the show American Hogger that say they got stop by the cops how do they prove they are hunting? They are open carry? Even driving up to area to hunt in some episodes and open carry . Than guns have to be put away well you drive up?
If private property means nothing? I'm sure the law enforcement that stops you would see that you are hunting but just for sake of argument how would you prove it than if you not on private property or in a hunting zone area?
If there no laws quoting private property or hunting zone area than this could get interesting in court if some law enforcement officers wanted you to prove it some how.
TexasReb May be I'm confused but I thought this thread is open carry all types of guns in public.
In that TV show they are open carry all types of guns even handguns.
I am really still not sure exactly what you are saying/advancing. You posts do not seem to connect with one another as to the central point you are trying to make. If indeed there even is one at all. I don't mean to be sarcastic...but just not sure how all what you post even ties in with each other..
Okay may be you can explain it better but may be I'm getting confused with open carry laws vs concealed carry laws.
In the show American Hogger that say they got stop by the cops how do they prove they are hunting? They are open carry? Even driving up to area to hunt in some episodes and open carry . Than guns have to be put away well you drive up?
If private property means nothing? I'm sure the law enforcement that stops you would see that you are hunting but just for sake of argument how would you prove it than if you not on private property or in a hunting zone area?
If there no laws quoting private property or hunting zone area than this could get interesting in court if some law enforcement officers wanted you to prove it some how.
Not sure what you're asking, because I've already provided the section of the Penal Code that allows for open carry while hunting. What exactly about the statute (PC §46.02) which reads "is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity" do you not understand?!?
That is why they get away with it on American Hogger. That said, I wouldn't use an obviously-scripted reality TV show as any precedence for Texas laws.
Concealed carry laws are simple, individuals with CHLs can carry anywhere not prohibited by law. In other words, places not allowed under §46 or §30.06.
While some laws can be vague, this one is pretty clear; and if an activity is not prohibited by the law, that means it is legal.
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