Is it true that Texans do not like to be referred to as Southerners? (El Paso: chapel, homes)

[doctorjef]

What seems to be more the case is that Texas culture is still infused with an undercurrent of Southern culture (and this is more overt in East Texas), even though many if not most Texans do not self-identify as Southerners. Despite this lack of self-identification as Southerners, I would agree that in social and ideological attitudes many of these same Texans are likely to have more in common with persons living in other unquestionably Southern states (the old Confederacy) than with persons living in other regions of the country.

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by miche111e

I find that I need to open my mind remark offensive.

I'm sorry, but I was born in Germany to a German mother and Puerto Rican father, raised since 8 in Texas, went to college in Texas (hook 'em!), and with the USAF lived in AL CA ND CA CO TX CO. My husbands from VT and went to college in SC. We were married in SC and my dad lives in GA, so many of my divorced-parent-visitation summers were spent there. The fact that I can't stand the Deep South and what it stands for does not mean I need to "open my mind", thank you very much.

Thank you.....I feel just about the same way.

The Old South is NOT something I want to identify with--sorry, y'all....it has an ugly, sordid history that is not something to be proud of, in my mind. You won't find me bragging about my long-buried Deep South ancestral roots. But..on both sides, they left the Deep South BEFORE the War Between the States. Thank God, Thank God, Thank God.

I don't subscribe to collective white guilt, either. I have no control over the past, and it is what it is. Can't be changed--but it doesn't have to be embraced, either.

I am so glad I was raised in West Texas, where the so-called Old South was not so prevalent and in-your-face--and I look forward to coming home one of these days.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Yes, that was a pretty offensive comment, all right.

Just because someone (and someone with extensive experience of the actual South) doesn't agree with you that Texas is a Southern state doesn't mean that THEY are the ones whose mind needs opening. See how turning that around can demonstrate how offensive it is?

I realize that you and TexasReb are married to the idea that Texas, no matter all of the other influences, some of which are just as strong or stronger, some of which have been here LONGER than the Southern influences, is a Southern state. But that doesn't mean that someone who disagrees with you has a closed mind.

No, but it does mean that you yourself are willingly overlooking the most obvious and relevant southern traits of this state: the accents, the food, the fact that we were a Confederate state, our cotton history, the political cultural, the religious atmosphere, etc.

I recognize our unique attributes and feel they only add a twist to what we already are, the same way Louisianans do. Some of you, for whatever reason, choose to feel that these differences exclude us from a larger region that we're obviously tied to.

Again, I'm not trying to be offensive or attack anyone's opinion, but I'm not apologizing for stating mine.

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

You'll have to speak for yourself, homeinatx. "The South" as I know it, isn't just passing nostalgia, but it's present in my life, and I was born, raised, and still reside in the most cosmopolitan city in this state, so that's saying something.

When I lived in Atlanta, I would take road trips to central South Carolina with friends. Mind you, this region is what many would consider the epitome of what it means to be southern, yet the familiarity and sense of home I felt there was incredible.

And yet, the entire time I was in MS, I was working 4-10s and an 8. I was too tired and busy to think about it that much.

But when I would go sight-seeing on the weekends, the "Old South" would hit me in the face--and I was thinking how grateful I was that I didn't have to grow up with that! It didn't feel familiar to me at all. I felt displaced and in an alien world. It was interesting up to a point, and I'm glad I got to experience it, but......at the same time....

Dear God in Heaven, get me out of here and back HOME.

[Nairobi]

...and as far as Texas not being tied to the ugliness of The South...please.

It was less than fifteen years ago that a black man was chained to a truck and dragged to his death, in this state. It doesn't matter if you choose to identify with the practices of the South, because someone has already made that decision for you. If you tell some folks you're from Texas, it doesn't matter what region you're from, they can still remember that you're from the state where something so horrific happened. And I can guarantee you that a lot of people don't see Texas as any more of a progressive or dynamic place than the Mississippi Delta.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by Cathy4017

And yet, the entire time I was in MS, I was working 4-10s and an 8. I was too tired and busy to think about it that much.

But when I would go sight-seeing on the weekends, the "Old South" would hit me in the face--and I was thinking how grateful I was that I didn't have to grow up with that! It didn't feel familiar to me at all. I felt displaced and in an alien world. It was interesting up to a point, and I'm glad I got to experience it, but......at the same time....

Dear God in Heaven, get me out of here and back HOME.

Well, I do recognize that there are regional differences in this state, and I can easily understand why someone from West Texas might not like the Deep South. Hell, I can understand why mountain southerners wouldn't like the DS.

[TexasHorseLady]

For the record, I don't share Cathy4017's apparent abhorrence of the South, and both now and in the past find quite a lot to admire (and am able to look past the "winner writes the history books" propaganda to the ACTUAL causes for that war which were more economic than anything else, as is almost always the case - the difference between the the terms "Civil War" and "War Between the States" are more than just names, they describe what the war was actually about, something I'm ashamed to say didn't occur to me until I was 40 because I just didn't think about it as most people don't). It's not because of a desire to disassociate myself from that history that I don't think Texas is essentially a Southern state. It's because it simply isn't. Way too many other influences for that to be the case, influences that would have to be ignored or denigrated as being not really important or as strong as they are in order to make that claim.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

For the record, I don't share Cathy4017's apparent abhorrence of the South, and both now and in the past find quite a lot to admire (and am able to look past the "winner writes the history books" propaganda to the ACTUAL causes for that war which were more economic than anything else, as is almost always the case - the difference between the the terms "Civil War" and "War Between the States" are more than just names, they describe what the war was actually about, something I'm ashamed to say didn't occur to me until I was 40 because I just didn't think about it as most people don't). It's not because of a desire to disassociate myself from that history that I don't think Texas is essentially a Southern state. It's because it simply isn't. Way too many other influences for that to be the case, influences that would have to be ignored or denigrated as being not really important or as strong as they are in order to make that claim.

You know, I could choose to take offense to that, the same way you chose to take offense to my earlier statement. I don't, though. You say I'm ignoring our unique history, and I say you're ignoring our present cultural ties to the South. See how that works?

Every southern state has a history that predates "The South", so I'm not sure where you're going with that.

[joyce88]

I've heard that they are proud of it.

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

...and as far as Texas not being tied to the ugliness of The South...please.

It was less than fifteen years ago that a black man was chained to a truck and dragged to his death, in this state. It doesn't matter if you choose to identify with the practices of the South, because someone has already made that decision for you. If you tell some folks you're from Texas, it doesn't matter what region you're from, they can still remember that you're from the state where something so horrific happened. And I can guarantee you that a lot of people don't see Texas as any more of a progressive or dynamic place than the Mississippi Delta.

Who said that Texas was not tied to the ugliness of the South? It does share elements, and that's why I can't understand--for the life of me--why anybody would embrace that ugly past as MS does. But racism and white supremacists are not unique to Texas.

I'm sure the bolded part is true, but it just shows their ignorance. Texas is light-years ahead of MS, especially economically. It's the main reason we are now 25 million and counting--not that that's altogether such a good thing.

What difference does it make what outsiders think of Texas and Texans...?