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Old 02-03-2011, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
371 posts, read 540,260 times
Reputation: 180

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I'm personally glad about what Austin and other cities are doing about this. I have asthma and frequently get bronchitis just by encountering cigarette smoke (along with other sources of smoke, like fireworks and fire) proving that smoking not only hurts yourself, but it hurts the people around you as well.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Chicago
1,257 posts, read 2,293,980 times
Reputation: 1139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
If you choose to patronize a place which permits smoking, then it is you who placed yourself in the catagory of being "inconvenienced, wouldn't you say?

What choice? I would gladly accept a scenario where there was a choice. But it's always one or the other, isn't it? What bar have you ever been to that was non smoking? So if I want to go out and experience nightlife and have a drink, I have to do it at my own risk to my health? Are Htownlove and Marlin96 not allowed to have a nightlife because they have allergies/asthma? How about majority rule instead? Smokers are an ever shrinking minority. If you're under 50 in 2011 and you smoke, you have made a poor life choice. Sorry. The consequences of smoking have been no secret for decades. I'm fine with somebody being dumb enough to want to develop a nicotine addiction in this day and age, but please kindly take that outside where it doesn't bother the majority of people.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 29,496,813 times
Reputation: 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarenceBodiker View Post
What choice? I would gladly accept a scenario where there was a choice. But it's always one or the other, isn't it? What bar have you ever been to that was non smoking? So if I want to go out and experience nightlife and have a drink, I have to do it at my own risk to my health? Are Htownlove and Marlin96 not allowed to have a nightlife because they have allergies/asthma? How about majority rule instead? Smokers are an ever shrinking minority. If you're under 50 in 2011 and you smoke, you have made a poor life choice. Sorry. The consequences of smoking have been no secret for decades. I'm fine with somebody being dumb enough to want to develop a nicotine addiction in this day and age, but please kindly take that outside where it doesn't bother the majority of people.
isn't it funny they say "oh just find a non smoking bar. Yeah right. Like bar owners would want to offend any of their customers.

I just don't see why smokers are so selfish they would rather see someone get sick than have the common courtesy to step outside and smoke
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
1,530 posts, read 2,741,900 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey_Mcfarren View Post
If you don't like smoke then why would you go to a bar...
Oh I don't know... to drink? But I guess if you're not a cool smoker, you should just drink at home by yourself.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 29,496,813 times
Reputation: 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn View Post
I used to smoke years ago. But I'm all in favor or banning it from all public spaces and businesses that are open to the public. Smoking is a disgusting habit and smokers have no right to subject others to their second hand smoke, not to mention the stink of it.

It is amazing how smokers don't realize how much they stink. I went to a funeral a few months ago. A couple of smokers walked down the aisle and we could smell the the smoke as they walked by even though we were 10' away. Disgusting, I pitied the poor people they sat near when they picked a pew.
oh yeah, the smell is atrocious. I remember having to ask the professor in school to allow me to switch seats because the girl who sat next to me reeked. Its not that she didn't shower or anything its just that the nasty smell had invaded her pores and the fibers of her hair to such a degree that no matter how much she washed it she still stank hella bad.

I remember I got a headache and nearly puked from just seating next to her so I had to move, but I could still smell her from across the room.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 29,496,813 times
Reputation: 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
Oh I don't know... to drink? But I guess if you're not a cool smoker, you should just drink at home by yourself.
lol, smoking isn't cool it is trashy.
That was my biggest disappointment about meeting Obama. Yes people, the Pres smells hella bad too
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: McAllen, TX
4,781 posts, read 3,267,174 times
Reputation: 5671
I only smoke when I have some drinks, I guess the two vices go hand in hand for me.. I do however detest 2nd hand smoke. It is quite bothersome (and I'm a casual smoker). I'd rather have 1st hand than 2nd hand.. It just makes sense to not allow it in public places, BUT I just hate the government going too far and telling us what we can't and can't do. Enough is enough..
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:32 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,852,533 times
Reputation: 5780
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarenceBodiker View Post
What choice? I would gladly accept a scenario where there was a choice. But it's always one or the other, isn't it? What bar have you ever been to that was non smoking?
As it is, I haven't been to a bar-bar in over ten years! LOL But at it is, there IS a choice (see more on this below). But you are the one who has to make it.

Quote:
So if I want to go out and experience nightlife and have a drink, I have to do it at my own risk to my health? Are Htownlove and Marlin96 not allowed to have a nightlife because they have allergies/asthma? How about majority rule instead?
Where is anyone "not allowed" to have a nightlife? This is one of those (ever frequent in our day and age) that, "it's all about me" oyutlooks. To wit: If "I" don't like something, then government should take steps to assure I should not be inconvenienced, even if it mean intruding on the private property rights of others (in this case, the business owner).

Majority rule? Such a concept has a noble history in this country...when it applies to public affairs and such. However, in a free-society, "the majority" have no rights when it comes to telling someone else how to run their own business. Might as well just say the business ultimately belongs to the "government" and not the owner.

This is something that many do not seem to be getting.

Quote:
Smokers are an ever shrinking minority. If you're under 50 in 2011 and you smoke, you have made a poor life choice. Sorry. The consequences of smoking have been no secret for decades. I'm fine with somebody being dumb enough to want to develop a nicotine addiction in this day and age, but please kindly take that outside where it doesn't bother the majority of people.
As I said initially, I quit smoking some 8 years ago, for precisely those reasons. It is a filthy and dangerous habit, and I don't like be around too much smoking myself. BUT...that doesn't translate into that I have the right --thru government -- to tell someone else it must be banned in their bars or restaurants or whatever, simply because I think I have a "right" to have a good time without breathing smoke. I am always free to go somewhere else.

You asked the rhetorical question earlier of "what bars are smoke-free?"...suggesting a choice is not there simply you feel they are unfair and infringing upon some self-definined right of yours. As to the question itself, I don't know since, again, I don't frequent them much anymore.

But hey, if you don't like the choice facing you, then create your own? That is, open your own bar and make it clear smoking is not allowed. In fact, advertizse that you cater to a non-smoking crowd. That is free-enterprize and perfectly acceptable and legal. Or boycott/petition bars which permit smoking and get them to change their policies thru private action. Nothing wrong with that either.

Instead though, it seems all too many expect that their "rights" supercede those of anybody elses, particularly those who run the business.

On a closely related tangent, the bars and such you mention are there to make money. If the person who runs the establishement felt they could do better by banning smoking, then chances are they would have, or may in the future, do so. Since many don't (i.e. they still allow smoking) then it stands to reason they have a good reason for doing so, right? Who is anyone to use the heavy-hand of government to intrude into their livlihood because the policy within offends their all-important personal sensibilities?
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:57 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,852,533 times
Reputation: 5780
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
isn't it funny they say "oh just find a non smoking bar. Yeah right. Like bar owners would want to offend any of their customers.
You just hit the nail on the head, HTLove, even if from an opposing directions.

You are right. Bar owners (or at least most) permit smoking because, apparently, it is good for their business. Which is the reason any privately-owned business starts and remains in business to begin with. To make a profit and do what is best toward that end. What is wrong with that? It does such things as pay bills required to exist.

But as I mentioned earlier, there is always the option to open one's own which shuns smoking and smoking. That is what free enterprise and competition is all about. What is so wrong with that?

Quote:
I just don't see why smokers are so selfish they would rather see someone get sick than have the common courtesy to step outside and smoke
If you are still talking about bars/restaurants/etc of which a large percentage of patrons choose to smoke (because it is permitted to do so according the aforehand understood business policy)? Yeah, I gotcha. They should all empty out so a few others can enjoy a smoke-free environment. Never mind that the owner might suffer an eventual loss of his regular customers -- and by extension, his profit and livliihood -- because of such. After all, who cares about that when "my rights" are at stake...

As I said earlier, I agree that many smokers (which I used to be) can be very obnoxious about it. I don't like that either. Never did. I never was one of that "smokers rights" crowd. To me, they can be just as unreasonable as the anti-smoking zealouts. To wit: If you smoke and a place doesn't allow it? Then go someplace else. And yes, be considerate of others. If you don't smoke? Then don't go to places that allow it.

Unfortunately, as TexasHorseLady said, it is usually the latter bunch which are the biggest problem in terms of reaching reasonable compromises. They remind a lot of those old stiff-necked New England Puritans a century or so back. That is, they were always obcessed with the concern that somewhere, somehow, some people out there was having a good time. LOL
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,806 posts, read 39,868,675 times
Reputation: 24326
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarenceBodiker View Post
What choice? I would gladly accept a scenario where there was a choice. But it's always one or the other, isn't it? What bar have you ever been to that was non smoking? So if I want to go out and experience nightlife and have a drink, I have to do it at my own risk to my health? Are Htownlove and Marlin96 not allowed to have a nightlife because they have allergies/asthma? How about majority rule instead? Smokers are an ever shrinking minority. If you're under 50 in 2011 and you smoke, you have made a poor life choice. Sorry. The consequences of smoking have been no secret for decades. I'm fine with somebody being dumb enough to want to develop a nicotine addiction in this day and age, but please kindly take that outside where it doesn't bother the majority of people.
Part of what this country was founded on was protection of the minority from the majority. But that's really irrelevant here, just mentioned it because you brought it up.

Did you read my post about the compromise that the City of Austin had, before the nonsmokers threw such a fit that it had to be gotten rid of? Where smokers had a (very few) bars and such licensed as smoking establishments where they could go where smoking was allowed, and the nonsmokers had the (vast majority) rest of the venues in town to patronize, where smoking was not allowed?

What would you think about that kind of compromise? Could you get behind it out of a sense of fairness and the foundation upon which this country was built?
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