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The unions had their place and time, but that time has come and gone.
So you would like to bankrupt an entire state on the backs of the taxpayers? Why not donate a larger portion of your pay to help them out, instead of demanding it from us?
That was what I thought about the Dark Ages--that their time had come and gone-- but I feel a similar epoch looming in our future...
I have been reading a novel set in Victorian times in London and there are so many similarities with what is going on in our society today--
poor people existing without any safety net, workers who receive no fair treatment by business or government, men who abuse drugs and/or women without a qualm, strict separation of classes and total disbelief in equality...there is little "noblesse" to be seen and less expected--a true equanimity on the parts of the have-nots regarding a life without a future, lived on the edge almost hourly...
that seems to be what is bubbling up into our society...
read past the first paragraph in that article about Wisconsin teachers' salaries The average salary for an MPS teacher is $56,500. When fringe benefits are factored in, the annual compensation will be $100,005 in 2011.
that is accounting that "factors in" the benefits of having health and pension plans--and it includes teachers close to retirement as well as those starting out--NOT every teacher is getting PAID 100K which is what the article leads someone to believe...if they did not read it or even read between the lines to know that the website is not exactly impartial in the "news" it presents...or how it presents it...
another article on that web site bemoans the fact there are not enough places at the "virtual school" classroom...
guess where that one is leading...
What do you think the avg salary would be for the Texas governor with benefits factored in--
have I heard Perry say one word about taking a salary reduction--moving to cheaper lodging--giving up ONE of his two chefs--
paying more of his share of his insurance plan--
or have I heard that from any state legislator???
Last edited by loves2read; 02-18-2011 at 09:18 PM..
I personally think that it is great that all of this is coming out into the open. I doubt that most people have any idea how much teachers make in some states and localities. It is one heck of a lot for many of them.
I've got nothing against teachers, however, questioning what they make has been a no-no for far too long, add into it all the benefits and the local taxpayers are paying a ton of money. How can we as taxpayers afford to keep paying these high salaries?
Another thing that is not supposed to be mentioned is that teachers for the most part are off all summer (unless they choose to take a summer job), off a week for spring break, off a couple of weeks at Christmas, and what's up with all the in-service days in the middle of the school year?
When I have mentioned these things, I'm routinely told, well, they take work home, they have to go to school in the evenings for parent teacher conferences, or school programs. Ya know what? Most jobs where people are making good money can say the same thing!
The school district I lived in in MI had full vision for their employees, who has that?! Really? What is with all these people who think throwing money at education improves it? Because, I sure am not seeing that happening, now or in the past.
I've been told often enough that if you pay good money, you will get good teachers, another thing that I have seen no evidence for. At any rate, I want teachers in the classroom who are there because they want to teach, not because they want a fat paycheck.
Would I want to do their job? Nope, but ya know, most of them would not want to do jobs I have had either.
Last edited by Rapunzll; 02-18-2011 at 09:44 PM..
Reason: Hadn
The unions had their place and time, but that time has come and gone.
So you would like to bankrupt an entire state on the backs of the taxpayers? Why not donate a larger portion of your pay to help them out, instead of demanding it from us?
That was what I thought about the Dark Ages--that their time had come and gone-- but I feel a similar epoch looming in our future...
I have been reading a novel set in Victorian times in London and there are so many similarities with what is going on in our society today--
poor people existing without any safety net, workers who receive no fair treatment by business or government, men who abuse drugs and/or women without a qualm, strict separation of classes and total disbelief in equality...there is little "noblesse" to be seen and less expected--a true equanimity on the parts of the have-nots regarding a life without a future, lived on the edge almost hourly...
that seems to be what is bubbling up into our society...
read past the first paragraph in that article about Wisconsin teachers' salaries The average salary for an MPS teacher is $56,500. When fringe benefits are factored in, the annual compensation will be $100,005 in 2011.
that is accounting that "factors in" the benefits of having health and pension plans--and it includes teachers close to retirement as well as those starting out--NOT every teacher is getting PAID 100K which is what the article leads someone to believe...if they did not read it or even read between the lines to know that the website is not exactly impartial in the "news" it presents...or how it presents it...
another article on that web site bemoans the fact there are not enough places at the "virtual school" classroom...
guess where that one is leading...
What do you think the avg salary would be for the Texas governor with benefits factored in--
have I heard Perry say one word about taking a salary reduction--moving to cheaper lodging--giving up ONE of his two chefs--
paying more of his share of his insurance plan--
or have I heard that from any state legislator???
First off, that's a pretty good average salary L2R. And I'm no fan of Perry.
By the way, I've come across pretty harsh to you on a couple of posts, and I want to apologize for that. There is no need for me to say things like "if you don't like it here, move somewhere else." It's everyone's prerogative to stand up for the issues they believe in and me besmirching someone that disagrees with me is just plain wrong.
You have every right in the world to voice your opinion, and I must say that you have always done that with dignity and respect to other posters. My hat's off to you there.
PS. You bring a lot of good information to these forums and are helpful to others all of the time. I'm sure that you're a good neighbor and asset to the community in which you live.
We will just have to agree to disagree on some things, which is no big deal at all.
I personally think that it is great that all of this is coming out into the open. I doubt that most people have any idea how much teachers make in some states and localities. It is one heck of a lot for many of them.
In the state of TX most school districts POST their salary schedules on their ISD web sites--and if you really wanted to know it is a matter of public knowledge--you could call a district personnel office and find out what the salary is...In my area of DFW the newspapers always post articles about the starting salary offered to new first-year teachers when school is about to start...it is a "bragging right" situation sometimes and most districts vie to offer MARKETPLACE salaries--meaning they feel they are competing with the business world to attract the best and brightest employees...
So if you don't know what teachers' salaries are in your area--maybe that is because you never cared to ask...
I've got nothing against teachers, however, questioning what they make has been a no-no for far too long, add into it all the benefits and the local taxpayers are paying a ton of money. How can we as taxpayers afford to keep paying these high salaries?
Find other ways besides residential homeowners -- like businesses that come into your state, use your workers and resources, and DON"T pay a fair amount of tax from what I have read...
Another thing that is not supposed to be mentioned is that teachers for the most part are off all summer (unless they choose to take a summer job), off a week for spring break, off a couple of weeks at Christmas, and what's up with all the in-service days in the middle of the school year?
Unfortunately MOST people still have failed to get the truth that teachers are not PAID for their summer days when they are not teaching--their contracts call for a blend of teaching days and professional development days--which their STATE has required for them to continue to receive education on strategies that will enhance teaching and improve student performance. AGAIN--they are not PAID for those days in the summer. Many teachers teach in summer school or work second jobs to add additional income to support their families. The staff that do work in the summer--like the principals and admin staff and lower numbers of custodians and the maintenance people who usually are doing projects that can't be done during the year because students are in the bldg are paid for a longer work schedule.
When I have mentioned these things, I'm routinely told, well, they take work home, they have to go to school in the evenings for parent teacher conferences, or school programs. Ya know what? Most jobs where people are making good money can say the same thing!
Would you consider showing up at school more than an hour early every day during the week to do tutorials with struggling students, to stay after school is over for an hour or more every day for the same thing, to work all day Sunday grading papers and preparing for the next week's activities, to spend hours at home during the week attempting to call parents about struggling students--would you say that MOST employees making good money are doing that??? And what is "good money"...A doctor who is on call after seeing patients averages well over 100K a year...A Wall Street type investment brokers earns well over a MILLION dollars a year--and teachers' salaries don't approach that level at all.
Most districts could not pay a teacher--a dedicated teachough money to cover the time and effort spent to the job s/he does...
The school district I lived in in MI had full vision for their employees, who has that?! Really? What is with all these people who think throwing money at education improves it? Because, I sure am not seeing that happening, now or in the past.
If you don't think that "throwing money at education improves it"--what have you done to improve it? Have you volunteered at your local school? Have you made a donation to the clothing bank that I bet many schools in your area have to help needy students? Have you gone to a school board meeting to voice your complaints about how the educational system in your area is mismanaged? The question is really: "Have you put any personal effort where your money is?"
I've been told often enough that if you pay good money, you will get good teachers, another thing that I have seen no evidence for. At any rate, I want teachers in the classroom who are there because they want to teach, not because they want a fat paycheck.
Then obviously the answer to improve education is to have it on a strickly volunteer basis--and parents can just send their kids with money every day to put in the collection box outside a teacher's room...I am sure that would work...
Would I want to do their job? Nope, but ya know, most of them would not want to do jobs I have had either.
The only response is that I am glad you see your would not make a good teacher.
@buzzpost--thank you for the compliments. I dont' know that I actually deserve that many accolades...I can lost my temper and be sarcastic. And I agree--a lively debate adds spice to life...
@plwhit--I am a retired Texas teacher--believe me when I say the power that Texas teachers have is much more limited than in other states because they don't really have unions--there is no "contract negotiation" done with districts or the state as in other states with a true union presence. We have professional organizations and yes there is a lobby presence with the legislature--but name any organization that does not have lobbyists. And I think most people would agree that the NRA, the AARP, the AMA, and certainly business organizations like the banks and financial institutions, and companies like Boeing have used their lobby powers to protect their own interests and those who belong to them...
IF you want to prohibit ALL lobby efforts--hey--I am willing to go with the larger good--Keep the NRA out of state and local politicians' pockets and campaign coffers--and I might agree that teachers don't deserve to lobby for their employment rights.
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