Collapsed Sewer Line (Abilene, Howe, Rule: real estate, insurance, lawyer)

[leeervin33]

I just bought a house July 15th in Abilene, Texas. The home was inspected and we told the inspector our main concern was the plumbing because the house was built in 1965. The inspector did not find any problems with the plumbing and the seller did not disclose any problems

The very first time I did laundry which was about a week after we moved in, the kitchen sink started backing up with water and water started pouring out of a pipe in the AC condensation line.

We called our home warranty company and they sent a plumber. He blew out the line with compressed air and left. Never ran any water or turned on the washing machine. We assumed it was fix.

I did laundry again and the same thing happened. The home warranty company sent out a different plumber. He ran a snake through the roof vent and ran the washing machine. The water was still backing up in the sink. A couple of days later he came back and ran a camera through the sewer line and said that it was collapsed and it appeared to be an old collapse as he could see tree roots growing through the pipe. He said SOMEONE should have known about this and the inspector would have discovered it if he had taken the cap off the outside cleanout as there was water standing in it.

He gave me a $10,000 estimate to fix it. I called another plumber and he is working on another estimate now.

What is my recourse in this situation? Is the inspector/seller liable?

Thank you.

[Philip T]

jmho, sue them all.

Their insurance companies will cross attack each other.

Take the cross-claims and counter-claims they generate and use those against both.

Divide and conquer.

[legalsea]

A tough situation, for which I sympathize.

Is your home warranty insurance company refusing to pay the $10,000.00 to fix the problem? Sometimes the insurance company will pay the claim, then sue the 'responsible party' to get their money back.

Obviously, you need to check with a real estate lawyer (I am a lawyer, but I haven't fooled with real estate law in two decades).

The seller: they could be held liable since, I assume, they completed the form in which they are to cite or check-off any problems that they are aware of (it is a standard form, by statue).

However, it is a very, very tough go to sue the seller in most circumstances. How long had they been out of the house? It is possible that they were truly unaware of the sewer line problem (my sister had the same exact problem; everything was working until one day when the water began backing up, and it turned out that tree roots had completely engulfed her sewer line; it was that quick).

The home inspector: look at the report the inspector gave you. I imagine you will find that said inspector stipulates that his is mainly a 'visual' inspection or such. If a home inspector (which is not overly regulated; it is pretty easy to become a home inspector, I believe) suspects a problem such as plumbing, they will tell you to get a plumber to look at it. I imagine his inspection was what we have had: turn on the various faucets, maybe turn on, then off, the washer (if there was a washer on the premises).

My advice: 1) call and meet with a lawyer that specializes in real estate law. 2) call your insurer and speak with them about the situation. 3) if all else fails, file suit in a small claims court against both the seller and the home inspector (the dollar limit for a small claims court, in most large cities, is, as it happens, $10,000.00).

The home inspector should, in theory (I am not sure, however) have his or her own liability insurance (at least, I see where insurance companies offer such policies to home inspectors, which implies they can be held liable for something, at least). The seller, if they actually knew about the problem, may offer to settle out of court. Note that in small claims courts you may act as your own representative. You would submit the various papers to the judge (seller's disclosure, home inspection report) and any report from a plumber certifying the problem with the sewer.

In the world of real estate the 'buyer beware' is still pretty much in force, although strides have been made over the years in protecting purchasers. I know your problem is being shared by many throughout the land as desparate sellers try to sell their home.


Lastly, I assume that the sewer line is collapsed within your property lines? I recall my sister saying that her blockage was just within her property line; if it had been outside of it, the city utility would fix it. She also had to pay a pretty penny to get it fixed (she had to pay cash, due to no insurance).

Good luck.

[leeervin33]

Thanks so much for the responses. We are meeting with an attorney next week to try and figure it all out. The seller just happens to be an attorney. I'll let you all know the outcome. Keeping my fingers and toes crossed.

Thanks again!!!

[CptnRn]

If you read your home warranty you may find that something like this is excluded from the coverage.

Same is true regarding the home inspector, they can't be expected to find every hidden defect in the house, and that is probably spelled out somewhere in their paperwork.

Always read the fine print.

There is a good chance the previous owner could have known about this problem, but proving it may be tough, especially if you are trying to sue a lawyer.

$10,000 is the limit for suing in small claims court in Texas. http://www.texasbar.com/Content/Navi...laimsCourt.pdf

[texdav]

That is a tough situation. With the drught and if the house was not occuppied for sometime its hard to prove when it collpased .Like all it would do is repair where its collpased.that is why so mnay water lines break in this type of drught and its sudden .

[escanlan]

You are in one of those sticky gray areas that can be difficult to pursue, but not impossible. As for chasing the Inspector I can provide a little insight into that. First it is important to read your contract with the Inspector (if you had one) to determine what they are using for inspection standards as licensed Texas Inspectors have a "minimum" set of inspection requirements. You can find these requirements here TREC - Rules Governing Inspectors. Of immediate interest is the plumbing section 535.231 which has the limitation of:

(b) Specific limitations for plumbing systems. The inspector is not required to:
(3) inspect:
(D) for sewer clean-outs; or

If the Inspector is only following the minimum standards requirements then even required to identify if sewer cleanouts are even present. Yes it does sound silly as at least identifying if sewer cleanouts are even present is important itself.

As for the plumber's statement:

A couple of days later he came back and ran a camera through the sewer line and said that it was collapsed and it appeared to be an old collapse as he could see tree roots growing through the pipe. He said SOMEONE should have known about this and the inspector would have discovered it if he had taken the cap off the outside cleanout as there was water standing in it.

I would definitely ask the plumber to put that in writing, on his company letterhead, and sign and date it. You will most likely find out how fast he changes his tune! Not because there isn't some truth in what he says but because he won't want to get involved in any lawsuit you might start.

There might be some truth in what the plumber stated but there are many factors to take into account that could also make it false. I do pull the main drain cleanout caps often to check for water flow and other issues when I suspect problems. I did one just yesterday where there was suspect foundation movement on a new home. Pulling the caps and watching two full tubs empty at the same time can potentially display damaged drain pipes, but not always. In your case even if the caps were pulled the following needs to be taken into consideration.

1. The generally expected life span of good quality cast iron is 75 - 100 years under ideal installation and ground conditions. Unfortunately in most of Texas we rarely encounter ideal conditions and good quality cast iron. At about the 50 year mark we start to see many issues and tree roots certainly don't help. Nobody can answer the quality and installation issues without excavating the pipe, and possibly under the foundation as well. All the Inspector could do, other than testing, is make a notation in the report about old cast iron pipes and the possibilities of deterioration.
2. If the piping system was large in volume, and the only issue was the collapse and slow drain at that point, then it could potentially still take a great deal of water to fill the entire drain system before it started backing up. If the caps were pulled then only after running sufficient amounts of water it might have started to rise up near the cleanout pipe. Standing water is not uncommon to see in drain lines of that age. Over time the ground shifts and might change the pipe slope enough to cause that. However large amounts of standing water would draw concern. But again the Inspector using the minimal standards is not required to even locate the cleanouts let alone open them.
3. If there was any type of leakage and/or deteriorated piping before the clog then it is always possible that it would take even more water to see the blockage.
4. As these pipes age their screw caps tend to jam from dirt, rust, expansion and damage to threads, etc. When that occurs an Inspector has to be careful not to torque on the cap as they can break or shear off the cleanout cap top. Even if I need to look in a cleanout I won't try excessive torque on them. What I will do though is recommend a plumber do this and check the system out. What you need to realize though is that the rules governing Inspectors do not require an Inspector to even call out for a specialist (see section 535.227).

As for Inspectors and insurance coverage yes all licensed Inspectors are required to have Errors & Omissions insurance if they made an error. You can always attempt a claim against the Inspector but if the Inspector is using the minimal standards of practice (SOP) then none of the required actions would have caught this issue. The insurance company might well not pay out at all depending on the policy coverage. We are only required to have coverage to handle the required standards and some of these E&O policies handle only that.

You mentioned that you had an "Inspector" but was it a TREC licensed Inspector or did you have a licensed Professional Engineer perform your inspection? If it was a licensed Inspector you should have received the following report format with the Inspectors license number on it http://www.trec.texas.gov/pdf/forms/...ctonReport.pdf. If it was a licensed Engineer and not a licensed Inspector then good luck as they are not required to carry E&O insurance.

Let us know how it progresses and if you have any further questions please ask!

[wankel7]

I would say actually having the inspection of the sewer pipe is due diligence you should have done.

A $150 camera inspection of the pipe would have revealed it was failing.

Unless he put a video camera in the sewer pipe it was not inspected.

I am surprised he did not recommend it.

Now the fact he didn't doesn't make it his / her fault. Either you should have know about it or your realtor should have recommend it be done.

If you are handy and have the time it really is not complicated. You are just digging a big trench, and installing new pipe, and making sure you have proper fall on the pipe so the crap goes the right direction.

[crone]

Same thing happened to me. The house had been empty for over a year. The house had a very odd odor. For the rest of my life I will recognize a dry sewer smell. About 2 weeks after we moved into a house at the top of a long hill, sewage started to bubble up in the yard. We just had to fix it. The lady was in another state and had enough trouble.

[Poltracker]

If you believe there was previous trouble, you might talk to the neighbors and see if they observed plumbing trucks out before or call around to local plumbers and see if anyone had worked at the house in the past. It would help bolster your case.