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Old 10-23-2011, 10:43 AM
 
1,518 posts, read 5,253,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Yes don't let facts or objectiveness cloud your judgement. Houston's plans are actually pretty good especially since it plans to build 65 rail stations in it's denser residential areas with the densest employment centers. These stations would be connected to the slowly expanding Park&Ride system that would reach the suburbs and connected to the overall bus system. Houston already has an effective grade separated HOV network that feeds buses and carpoolers (and those that break the law) into the core from every major radial highway. Houston downtown has ~37% of the work commute by transit and the Medical Center is 28%. Uptown and Greenway Plaza around 7% and 5%, which could certainly benefit from rail service. Naturally, focusing on the rail in the core is the next move.

Check out this informative pdf about Houston transit and growth: Houston Tomorrow
Once its done, that will be great and we can revisit who has the better public transport. But for now, I think Dallas has a better system due to the rail lines that currently exist. Dallas is also expanding and should only get better.
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,982 posts, read 35,056,970 times
Reputation: 7427
Dallas has a better rail system, but overall it's crap. Houston will cover less miles in a smaller area, but will have a much larger impact and be more significant.

It's not about the mileage or how far rail travels; it's how useful and efficient it is. I see not future planning with the way Dallas is building rail. As usual Dallas is all about show, but no substance.

It's obvious Dallasites don't know rail works, but how Dallas is building it especially using LRT as a commuter train and than having the audacity to pass it off and brag as if it's really amazing is hilarious to me.
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:53 AM
 
1,518 posts, read 5,253,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkgiraffe View Post
Dallas has a better rail system, but overall it's crap. Houston will cover less miles in a smaller area, but will have a much larger impact and be more significant.

It's not about the mileage or how far rail travels; it's how useful and efficient it is. I see not future planning with the way Dallas is building rail. As usual Dallas is all about show, but no substance.

It's obvious Dallasites don't know rail works, but how Dallas is building it especially using LRT as a commuter train and than having the audacity to pass it off and brag as if it's really amazing is hilarious to me.
Dallas has to deal with more special interests, which is a shame. Plano and Irving complain that they have no rail, so they demand that rail be built in their town instead of Dallas building more in downtown, which was already planned to be built by now. Houston has a better political situation because it is the alpha city in its area. In Dallas, we have to build farther out because those DART member cities threatened to stop paying into DART if they didn't immediately receive rail. It's not about style over substance.

No public transportation system builds for style. Instead, it's about politics. I wish it wasn't that way. It's short sighted. But it's reality.
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Old 10-23-2011, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,786,243 times
Reputation: 7752
Quote:
Originally Posted by blkgiraffe View Post
Dallas has a better rail system, but overall it's crap. Houston will cover less miles in a smaller area, but will have a much larger impact and be more significant.

It's not about the mileage or how far rail travels; it's how useful and efficient it is. I see not future planning with the way Dallas is building rail. As usual Dallas is all about show, but no substance.

It's obvious Dallasites don't know rail works, but how Dallas is building it especially using LRT as a commuter train and than having the audacity to pass it off and brag as if it's really amazing is hilarious to me.
exactly.

Most systems have intensive rail in the core, with convenient stops to many areas of interest and have commuter rail out to different satellites. Dallas has that those strings before concentrating out on the burbs and then they are bragging about it.

They say that the other cities would not have Dallas having rail or else they will stop supporting, well that just shows you how Houston has a superior set up. The Burbs will get rail when they get it, in the mean time they have to shut up and make due with the express buses and park and rides.

As of the 1st quarter of 2011 DART had a ridership of 1016 boardings per mile. Houston's ridership during the same period was 4760. That placed Dallas as the 23 highest ridership per mile while Houston placed second.

with 1/10th the mileage Houston has half the riders of DART. It is clear that when the University line opens Houston would have more total riders with 1/6th the miles. That just shows how better implemented Houston rail is


When it comes to Bus Ridership Houston's is at 222K while Dallas is at 116K. Even San ANtonio is higher at 130K.

So Houston's Rail Ridership per mile is 4 times that of Dallas and the Bus ridership is twice that of Dallas.

Austin's commuter rail system is improving Ridership, their Daily ridership numbers have doubled to 1600, but that is still far lower than CR in DFW.


Overall Transit usage in TX:

1. Houston- 271K riders per day
2. DFW - 196 K (Including TRE)
3. San Antonio- 134K
4. Austin- 120K
5. El Paso - 49K
6. Corpus -22K
7. Lubbock- 18K
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Old 10-23-2011, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,786,243 times
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wow, in 1998 DART's ridership was 211,000 in 2011 the Ridership is 196,000??? Despite adding 1,500,000 people to the metro since 1998 and spending Billions of tax payers money to add zillions of miles of rail, DART acyually dropped in ridership numbers????

This is the same rail system that you guys are arguing is so top notch:

Quote:
Dallas Area Rapid Transit must cut jobs and scrap nearly all rail expansion plans for the next 20 years, agency executives told board members Tuesday, citing discouraging revenue forecasts.

Plans for a second light-rail line in downtown Dallas, until now scheduled to open in 2016, will no longer be funded and are likely to be scrapped unless other money can be found. The line has a projected cost of $505 million to $820 million.

"At $100 million a mile for light rail, I see little additional 'conventional light rail' in DART's future." The city and DART will probably have to focus on more affordable modes of transportation, including cheaper types of rail and, for places like downtown Dallas, streetcars.
Money woes will force DART to cut jobs, rail plans | Dallas-Fort Worth Transportation News - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News

Sorry, but the University line alone will come near to matching DARTS total ridership. Dallas needs to learn from Houston and stop doing everything OTT
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Old 10-23-2011, 04:52 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,759,552 times
Reputation: 4580
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamiltonpl View Post
I don't think you've been paying attention. There have been nearly $3 billion in TOD projects in Dallas. Three billion dollars is "not occurring?"

I'll keep the Jersey jokes to myself.
3 Billion , thats nothing.....in this region over the past 10 years there's been 270 Billion in Smart Growth..... 3 Billion is a drop in the bucket , an average city had at least 15 Billion of projects underway per year.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:41 AM
 
1,518 posts, read 5,253,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
3 Billion , thats nothing.....in this region over the past 10 years there's been 270 Billion in Smart Growth..... 3 Billion is a drop in the bucket , an average city had at least 15 Billion of projects underway per year.
Can you show me a source for that? The entire budget of the state of New Jersey is $29 billion. So you're saying that your town had over half the state budget in Transit Oriented Developments alone? And that the average city in New Jersey had half the state budget for Transit Oriented Developments every year?

Please show me where Washington Township, New Jersey had $15 billion per year in Transit Oriented Developments. I've searched the internet for a source, but I can't find one.

I'm sure that the northeast has had more transit oriented developments. But I think Dallas developers have done a pretty good job in developing TODs, which was a completely foreign idea in Texas. New Jersey may have more TODs to begin with, since mass transit has been more popular there for over 100 years.

As of 2009, Dallas had invested $8 billion in TODs. Not $3 billion.
DART.org - DART Economic Impact
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: The Mid-Cities
1,085 posts, read 1,778,660 times
Reputation: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
You can think Dallas is tops in PT the number of riders and ridership per mile tells a different story.

and FYI Houston is the one with more options. don't know what la la land you are living in.

with Rail, Bus, Park and Ride, Express Service, Rapid Route, and other options we definitely trump y'all in options.

You are sitting there calling people bias and I am sure your butt hasn't been on PT around the State. I at least know have been on them in the bigger cities. You sit on your computer and say "lets see which one is longer" get on the darn thing before make judgments.
I don't know where your getting this assumption that I haven't used public transportation from but rest assured that I have ridden in all major cities throughout the state including both Houston and Dallas and then some smaller ones. You are correct, DART does span a wider area but that is irrelevant to me and wasn't even evaluated in my conclusion. The way I see it this is what really matters: 1. Accessibility 2. The amount of relevant and important destinations the transportation system can take you to 3. Ease of Use 4. Transit Options

BTW, I can assure you I don't spend as much time on the computer making judgements, another assumption by your part. If number of posts posted and read is any indication of that, it would seem that this was you not me. I would be less than 2% of what you do .And finally with all these assumptions how can I honestly take you serious on anything you say. That is not a question.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,786,243 times
Reputation: 7752
Quote:
Originally Posted by dollaztx View Post
I don't know where your getting this assumption that I haven't used public transportation from but rest assured that I have ridden in all major cities throughout the state including both Houston and Dallas and then some smaller ones. You are correct, DART does span a wider area but that is irrelevant to me and wasn't even evaluated in my conclusion. The way I see it this is what really matters: 1. Accessibility 2. The amount of relevant and important destinations the transportation system can take you to 3. Ease of Use 4. Transit Options
and if you used systems outside DFW you would see that Houston wins in all 4 of these categories.

The stops are in easilly accessible higer population areas.
All relevant and important destinations are served.
The system is easy to use because of our layout and we have the most options.

Like I said, don't just sit there looking at miles and thinking yours is better.
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:32 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,075,140 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamiltonpl View Post
Once its done, that will be great and we can revisit who has the better public transport. But for now, I think Dallas has a better system due to the rail lines that currently exist. Dallas is also expanding and should only get better.
Well I would think ridership would reflect this.
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