Is Texas a Southern or Western state? (Howe, Point: to live in, assessment)

[TXSooner]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

To be honest, that perhaps this topic should be made a "sub-forum" along with the different cities...? LOL

And really, perhaps it should....? That way, those (like me) who enjoy discussing/debating regional/cultural studies...especially as applies to Texas...can do so. Because, yes, Texas regional affiliation is a very interesting subject, and one that will forever remain tied to the state's uniqueness. And also remain ever debatable.

And those who don't -- or are just purely burnt out on the topic (which even the most interested are, in some ways! LOL) -- don't have to deal with it. If that makes sense.

TXSooner? To me, Texas is essentially Southern. Even most of West Texas -- IMHO -- is more Southern than not in terms of history and outlook (that is, when stacked up to the Rocky Moutain and Interior SW states). The prototype of the Texas cowboy was the Old South cattle drover, not the Mexican vaquero. As to speech and dialect? Texas easily falls within the range of what is classified as Southern American English...and this according to the most extensive and recent ever done on the subject. There is not really any such thing as a "western accent" which can be associated with the vast majority of Texas.

Anyway, since this subject will never die (and in many ways, no reason it should) why not make it a seperate sub-forum? Perhaps..?

With all that said though, TXSooner, you make some very good points on the subject!

Making this a separate forum would be a great idea, because I don't think the very original post broke it down like I did. Maybe you could start it?

In response to your observation, I don't know what you mean by the "old south" cattle drover. My understanding of the "american cowboy" was that he was born somewhere in central texas and relied heavily on the mexican vaquero (i.e. using the rope to rope cattle, the saddle for cowboys being modeled after the vaquero's saddle, etc.)

Now as far as regional accents, I would agree that Texas falls within the southern accent, but in Amarillo it would not be a deep south accent. It could be a border south accent characteristic of Tennessee and Kentucky, but definitely not deep south. I believe that someone with an earlier thread broke down the accent differences. When I said Amarillo had a "western" accent, I was trying to compare it to what I believe is a similiar accent in Oklahoma, Kansas and Colorado, for instance. The panhandle has many OK ancestors.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TXSooner

Making this a separate forum would be a great idea, because I don't think the very original post broke it down like I did. Maybe you could start it?

LOL The original post was one I made two years ago...back when I was a newbie! Since then, lord a mercy, there have been so many threads on this topic...and different opinions! You might want to read all those subsequent...

Anyway, I wish I knew how to do so! Make it a seperate forum, that is. You come across as a person who who can discuss this potentially volitile topic in an intelligent and civil way. I appreciate that!

In response to your observation, I don't know what you mean by the "old south" cattle drover. My understanding of the "american cowboy" was that he was born somewhere in central texas and relied heavily on the mexican vaquero (i.e. using the rope to rope cattle, the saddle for cowboys being modeled after the vaquero's saddle, etc.)

The Texas "cattle boom" is a direct legacy of the "Civil War". It traces to the fall of Vicksburg. That town on the Mississippi River was called the "nailhead" of the Confederacy, holding the eastern and western sections together. It was there that Texas cattle were driven east to feed the Confederate armies. Once the yankees controlled it however, the market to the rest of the South was cut off and, with most Texas men off fighting the war, the untended herds multiplied and roamed wild. After the war though, because Texas emerged relatively unscathed physically, many southesterners migrated there to get a new start because of the cheap land. And sure enough, a commodity to be taken advantage of were the unowned herds of wild cattle. There was still no market in the South (having been devastated by war), so those early cattle barons (most of them former Confederate soldiers) drove them north to Kansas. Anyway, point being that it would seem to stand to reason that while certainly much of the Texas cowboy tradition was adopted from the already solidified vaquero presence, all in all, these men were Southerners and readily became cowboys by virtue of being familiar with the old Southern "drover" tradition. The saddle used by most of the original Texas cowboys was the "McClellan" saddle from the "Civil War", not that of the Mexican vaquero.

Anyway, a great work on all this is Terry Jordans "Southern roots of Western Ranching"...which pretty much confines itself to Texas. I am in the process of ordering this work.

Now as far as regional accents, I would agree that Texas falls within the southern accent, but in Amarillo it would not be a deep south accent. It could be a border south accent characteristic of Tennessee and Kentucky, but definitely not deep south.

Nothing to disagree about here at all.

Enjoyed the discussion and look forward to more. I always enjoy one with someone who does so with genunine interest and in a civil way! And we can always take this to DM and/or e-mail.

[victorianbybirth]

Texas is South. Anything above Texas is north & full of yankees. I very much dislike the West also.

[Colddiamond102]

Texas is South. It helped in the Civil war, it's in the club.

[Canine*Castle]

Originally Posted by victorianbybirth

Texas is South. Anything above Texas is north & full of yankees. I very much dislike the West also.

Oh, okay. Yankees, if you will, in Oklahoma? I agree Texas is definitely the south, but I very much like the west. It's beautiful.

[TexasHorseLady]

Arrggghhhhh!!!! The Thread That Will Not Die!

However, Texas is neither the South nor the Southwest. It is Texas. Given that, I have a whole long list of links indicating that the U.S. Government, at least, considers it to be in the Southwest Region, thus, Southwest.

TxSooner did an admirable job in their post just a few above, though.

[love roses]

I knew you were gonna say that, THL I agree...Texas is just Texas. It's actually a little of both, really. I mean, it does border quite a few states so that gives different regions their different feels. Deep inside, to me, Texas is Southern. But my opinion is formed from having grown up in South East Texas along the coast, where we ate lots of cajun food, seafood and southern home cooking. Also grew up in a region that was full of plantations, decaying foundations of old plantations and a history of cotton farming. Also grew up along the Brazos River (It runs through the edge of town). More similar history to the Mississippi River than, say, the Colorado river. I've got other members of my family who grew up in South Texas and West Texas so their views would probably be different...Texas, a whole 'nother county!

[afoigrokerkok]

EAST Texas is in the South. WEST Texas is in the West.

[Pontifikate]

Southwest

[KeyserSoze]

I don't think you can simply pick one or the other. If anything, I'd say that it's a mix of both. But more with a Southwestern flavor with some Great Plains thrown in. That's what makes Texas just that -- Texas.