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FIRST of all, I am relatively new to this forum, so PLEASE forgive me if this particular topic/question, as been done before (especially if it has been beaten to death! LOL)
Assuming not though (that word ASSume, again!), do you consider Texas, overall, a Southern or Western state? No fair to say "SouthWest" as as that label can mean anything. It can mean western South, or southern west. Rather, just is it MORE Southern? Or more Western? Also, please give your reasons for the opinions and, if you are a Texan, please say where you live in Texas (as that often has a bearing on the opinion) and if you are a native or transplant.
My own take is that it is Southern. It is not a TYPICAL Southern state, but all things considered, it essentially belongs to the South. I will give reasons for saying so as time goes on, but for now, I want to get others take on it.
FIRST of all, I am relatively new to this forum, so PLEASE forgive me if this particular topic/question, as been done before (especially if it has been beaten to death! LOL)
Assuming not though (that word ASSume, again!), do you consider Texas, overall, a Southern or Western state? No fair to say "SouthWest" as as that label can mean anything. It can mean western South, or southern west. Rather, just is it MORE Southern? Or more Western? Also, please give your reasons for the opinions and, if you are a Texan, please say where you live in Texas (as that often has a bearing on the opinion) and if you are a native or transplant.
My own take is that it is Southern. It is not a TYPICAL Southern state, but all things considered, it essentially belongs to the South. I will give reasons for saying so as time goes on, but for now, I want to get others take on it.
Thanks y'all!
Texas may be geographically in south central US, but it has more elements of the west than the south, IMHO. I am a native Texan who recently moved to New Mexico a few weeks ago. Up until that time, I was born in and lived in WT for 54 years.
The southern states typically had their own culture that was very similar across all of them--slavery, plantations, customs, food, manner of speaking...etc. Texas has never been anything like LA, MS, GA, VA, etc, other than in the very far eastern parts along the LA state line.
Texas at the time of the Civil War was still largely unsettled in many parts, and had a vastly different way of life from any the southern states. It was a slave state, but did not otherwise have the way of life that was present in most of the rest of the Confederacy. It was also influenced greatly by having been a part of Mexico...and then a nation in its own right, with all of the history there.
Like it or not, Texas IS the Southwest, so you cannot dismiss that. Since it has grown so much over the last few years, you now hear accents from all over. But most native Texans do not have a southern accent--re LA, MS, GA, AL, etc, other than in the aforementioned deep east Texas. As for me, I have been in the south....and I could not get out of there fast enough. That also goes for deep East Texas, too, LOL!!!
Anyway, the argument continues......I am very biased, though, and I cringe when I hear that Texas is part of the south....
Texas may be geographically in south central US, but it has more elements of the west than the south, IMHO. I am a native Texan who recently moved to New Mexico a few weeks ago. Up until that time, I was born in and lived in WT for 54 years.
The southern states typically had their own culture that was very similar across all of them--slavery, plantations, customs, food, manner of speaking...etc. Texas has never been anything like LA, MS, GA, VA, etc, other than in the very far eastern parts along the LA state line.
Texas at the time of the Civil War was still largely unsettled in many parts, and had a vastly different way of life from any the southern states. It was a slave state, but did not otherwise have the way of life that was present in most of the rest of the Confederacy. It was also influenced greatly by having been a part of Mexico...and then a nation in its own right, with all of the history there.
Like it or not, Texas IS the Southwest, so you cannot dismiss that. Since it has grown so much over the last few years, you now hear accents from all over. But most native Texans do not have a southern accent--re LA, MS, GA, AL, etc, other than in the aforementioned deep east Texas. As for me, I have been in the south....and I could not get out of there fast enough. That also goes for deep East Texas, too, LOL!!!
Anyway, the argument continues......I am very biased, though, and I cringe when I hear that Texas is part of the south....
Thanks for your observations and opinion, Cathy!
I DO agree that Texas is "Southwest", BUT... only Southwestern in its own right. That is, it is not the "Southwest" in the same sense as is New Mexico or Arizona.
That is probably an issue in itself. That is, the whole Southwest thing. There is a great article in a volume called "The Encylopedia of Southern Culture." I don't have a copy of it at home, so am going from memory, but what it covered was the history and evolution of the term "Southwest". Originally, it meant, the frontier states of the South, and consisted of Alabama, Missisippi, and Tennesee. Then went on to Louisiana and Arkansas. Finally, Texas.
Sometime after the War Between the States, it sort of solidified into being defined as Texas and, to a lesser extent, Arkansas, and to some degree, Oklahoma. The main point being that at no time was the term used to denote a wholely seperate region, but rather, a sort of "twin" to the "southeast, which together made up The South.
As time went on though, and westward migration continued, for geographical reasons, New Mexico and Arizona began to be called the Southwest and, as the article in Ency. Southern Culture put it (paraphrased from recollection), "the relationship to the South became increasingly unclear..."
This is sort of where it stands today. That is, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico all being considered "Southwestern", yet too often no historical and cultural distinction between the former and the latter two when applying the label. So it gets confusing. Those in the latter two states tend to reject any sense of "Southwestern brotherhood" with us, and likewise, most Texans don't think of ourselves being Southwestern in the same vein with them.
I don't want to keep belaboring the point, but Texas is southwest as in "western South". A place where Southern history, religion, culture, folkways, traditions, etc are flavored with Western dress, wide-open spaces, and free-spirited individuality (for the most part, that is. East Texas is where the Deep South of the southeast begins). On the other hand, New Mexico and Arizona are the true hispanic/indian influenced Southwest of the West.
You mention the accent as being different from the "Southern accent." This is an area where "Hollywood and stereotypes" trump the truth. That is, there is no one single "Southern accent"...although when the phrase is mentioned, the one that comes to mind is that associated with Gone With the Wind. Linguistically speaking though, the above is only ONE of MANY dialects that properly are known as Southern American English. The Texas accent (of which in turn there are many sub-varities) is/are one of them. The most obvious aspects are the idiom (y'all, fixin' too, out yonder, etc) and the drawl and twang which is Southern in orgin.
I have rambled enough for now. But thanks again for the comments!
Texas is a region in itself. I prefer to think of it where Midwest, West and South meet.
Houston and eastward has a strong Louisiana influence. The Piney Woods are very Southern. Dallas has so many external influences that it is hard to pigeonhole into any region. The Panhandle has more in common with Oklahoma and Kansas (the Midwest) than the rest of Texas. El Paso and the far west part of the state is closely linked to New Mexico and the *Southwest* as it's usually thought of. Go south into the Rio Grande Valley and you might as well be in another country entirely.
Texas is a region in itself. I prefer to think of it where Midwest, West and South meet.
Houston and eastward has a strong Louisiana influence. The Piney Woods are very Southern. Dallas has so many external influences that it is hard to pigeonhole into any region. The Panhandle has more in common with Oklahoma and Kansas (the Midwest) than the rest of Texas. El Paso and the far west part of the state is closely linked to New Mexico and the *Southwest* as it's usually thought of. Go south into the Rio Grande Valley and you might as well be in another country entirely.
I think we would ALL agree that Texas is Texas. Which is pretty much what you said.
My query though is, when it comes down to brass tacks, is it overall, in personal everyones opinion/experience/observation, more Southern or Western.
Texas may just be one state but it's a big one, and to me it's own region. That's why people have a hard time classifying things like 'Southern' or Western.' Because it's Texas, the Texas region, you see.
I've grown up in West Texas..and it's most definitely not 'the South.' East Texas maybe, I don't know. But not WT. I have family in Alabama and have been there a few times..it's not the same at all.
You mention the accent as being different from the "Southern accent." This is an area where "Hollywood and stereotypes" trump the truth. That is, there is no one single "Southern accent"...although when the phrase is mentioned, the one that comes to mind is that associated with Gone With the Wind. Linguistically speaking though, the above is only ONE of MANY dialects that properly are known as Southern American English. The Texas accent (of which in turn there are many sub-varities) is/are one of them. The most obvious aspects are the idiom (y'all, fixin' too, out yonder, etc) and the drawl and twang which is Southern in orgin.
There is no one single southern accent, but I am speaking from experience, not Hollywood stereotypes. I as a West Texan, sound nothing like natives of LA, MS, AL, GA, VA, etc, and I have either been to those states or have known natives of same that have moved to TX...and they sound nothing like a West/North/South Texan, though you will hear more of a "southern sound" in deep East Texas. Whatever West Texas accent I may have, nobody here in New Mexico has commented on it at all. CA, MS and VA were different stories!!
Some of the idioms are very much alike, yes...I suppose--no matter where I live--I'll never get rid of the y'all.....LOL!!
You mention the accent as being different from the "Southern accent." This is an area where "Hollywood and stereotypes" trump the truth. That is, there is no one single "Southern accent"...although when the phrase is mentioned, the one that comes to mind is that associated with Gone With the Wind. Linguistically speaking though, the above is only ONE of MANY dialects that properly are known as Southern American English. The Texas accent (of which in turn there are many sub-varities) is/are one of them. The most obvious aspects are the idiom (y'all, fixin' too, out yonder, etc) and the drawl and twang which is Southern in orgin.
There is no one single southern accent, but I am speaking from experience, not Hollywood stereotypes. I as a West Texan, sound nothing like natives of LA, MS, AL, GA, VA, etc, and I have either been to those states or have known natives of same that have moved to TX...and they sound nothing like a West/North/South Texan, though you will hear more of a "southern sound" in deep East Texas. Whatever West Texas accent I may have, nobody here in New Mexico has commented on it at all. CA, MS and VA were different stories!!
Some of the idioms are very much alike, yes...I suppose--no matter where I live--I'll never get rid of the y'all.....LOL!!
LOL And who would WANT to get rid of y'all? Heck, it is practically the "state word" of Texas!
But seriously, Cathy, what you say makes my point. That is, the accent(s) you mention in some of the southeastern states are no more, linguistically speaking, "Southern" than is the variety spoken in West Texas. Even though the latter is what is commonly considered a "Southern accent." But, in reality, ALL of part of what is considered "Southern American English"
There was a great article a few years ago in "Texas Monthly" magazine on the subject. Here is an exerpt"
********
“The most basic explanation of aTexas accent is that it’s a Southern accent with a twist,” said Professor Bailey, who has determined that the twang is not only spreading but also changing. “It’s the twist that we’re interested in.”
The preeminent scholar on Texas pronunciation, Bailey hails from southern Alabama; he has a soft lilting drawl that, for the sake of economy, will not be phonetically reproduced here but is substantially more genteel and less nasal than Bob Hinkle’s twang. The broadly defined “Texas accent” began to form, Bailey explained, when two populations merged here in the mid-nineteenth century. Settlers who migrated from Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi brought with them what would later become the Lower South Dialect (its drawl left an imprint on East Texas), while settlers from Tennessee and Kentucky brought with them the South Midland Dialect (its twang had a greater influence in West Texas).
Added to the mix of Anglo settlers from the Deep South and Appalachia who began talking to each other was an established Spanish-speaking population and an influx of Mexican, German, and Czech immigrants. “What distinguishes a Texas accent the most is the confluence of its influences,” said Bailey.
***********
But seriously, Cathy, what you say makes my point. That is, the accent(s) you mention in some of the southeastern states are no more, linguistically speaking, "Southern" than is the variety spoken in West Texas. Even though the latter is what is commonly considered a "Southern accent." But, in reality, ALL of part of what is considered "Southern American English"
Linguistically speaking? Linguistics is nothing more than the study of human speech and things related to same. What it all boils down to is: How does it sound to the ear? A West Texas accent sounds nothing like a native southern accent of any of the other states mentioned. West Texas does have a drawl/twang/nasally sound, yes, but it just doesn't SOUND the same as the aforementioned states.
When I lived in MS 20+ years ago on a temporary work assignment (no offense to native Mississippians here), the speech just grated on my ears, and I never got used to it. I'm pretty sure that I sounded strange to them, too....
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