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View Poll Results: Which city will make the most dramatic Change in its core?
Dallas 57 24.36%
Houston 103 44.02%
Austin 48 20.51%
San Antonio 26 11.11%
Voters: 234. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-02-2016, 07:48 PM
 
Location: The Bayou City
3,231 posts, read 4,540,122 times
Reputation: 1467

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retail Man View Post
Another contrast between the cities is how retail becomes anchors for surrounding office buildings in Dallas. The competition for constructing quality shopping centers has always been the tradition in Dallas. In the recent remaking the the city that is still ongoing, the surviving urban retail has been very convenient. For example, in North Oak Cliff, there are three interesting areas of retail in close proximity. One is the very pretty area on the west side of Lake Cliff, another is the Bishops Arts District along Davis Street, and, finally, the last one is the mile long shopping district of Jefferson Blvd. Where does one go next? Well, the most logical course is to go south on Zang Blvd to Wynnwood Shopping Center. From there, to the west of Wynnwood is a little stretch of retail along S. Edgefield in the pretty neighborhood of Edgefield.

The scene in the movie "Born on the Forth of July" was filmed along this little stretch of commercial.

One can piece together the overall puzzle by focusing on the retail. The same isn't true concerning office buildings. By focusing on the retail, the office buildings will follow.

Another contrast between the two cities is how the two plazas of parks systems in central Houston, these being the pretty areas of Herman Park and the Memorial Park / Braes Bayou area, are devoid of any significant retail. To me, those two are synonymous. Again, just think of all the retail surrounding the Katy Trail in central Dallas?
Retail becomes anchors for surrounding office buildings in Dallas? Maybe about as much as retail becomes anchors for surrounding office buildings in Houston.. But you yourself said there are only a few large retailers in downtown Dallas, where the majority of the big office buildings are. I'll agree, retail drives development in some cases, but certainly not all. As for some Houston examples of development following retail, look at theGalleria in Uptown.. That was built in 1970, before all the surrounding towers went up. There didn't used to be much out in Memorial City besides the mall.. Now look at all the towers/development Metro National has built around it. Same for the Woodlands Mall. It was built in 1994. Since then the Woodlands Waterway was built, along with a number of large buildings. Greenspoint Mall was built in 1976, before any of the towers were built around there. So I don't see how Dallas "contrasts" from Houston in that regard.
Im not sure I follow what "overall puzzle" you are referring to..
Retail and parks are not synonymous.. Why would anyone go to a park to go shopping? Did you really just compare the Katy Trail to Hermann Park & Memorial Park? Lulz.. And I seriously doubt anyone takes the Katy Trail to go shopping.

 
Old 03-02-2016, 11:08 PM
 
11 posts, read 9,861 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasTallest View Post
Retail becomes anchors for surrounding office buildings in Dallas? Maybe about as much as retail becomes anchors for surrounding office buildings in Houston.. But you yourself said there are only a few large retailers in downtown Dallas, where the majority of the big office buildings are. I'll agree, retail drives development in some cases, but certainly not all. As for some Houston examples of development following retail, look at theGalleria in Uptown.. That was built in 1970, before all the surrounding towers went up. There didn't used to be much out in Memorial City besides the mall.. Now look at all the towers/development Metro National has built around it. Same for the Woodlands Mall. It was built in 1994. Since then the Woodlands Waterway was built, along with a number of large buildings. Greenspoint Mall was built in 1976, before any of the towers were built around there. So I don't see how Dallas "contrasts" from Houston in that regard.
Im not sure I follow what "overall puzzle" you are referring to..
Retail and parks are not synonymous.. Why would anyone go to a park to go shopping? Did you really just compare the Katy Trail to Hermann Park & Memorial Park? Lulz.. And I seriously doubt anyone takes the Katy Trail to go shopping.
The reason I felt burdened to enter this topic was the recent article by Steve Brown. You have to appreciate the pressure he is under. While one threat towards his opinions is coming from the association pushing downtown Dallas as the epic center of the North Texas universe, another threat is coming from city government officials pushing the Dallas Arts District and Ross Avenue as the prime area of central Dallas. When Steve Brown writes something, he isn't really expressing what he feels as he can't. You have to read between the words.
Indeed, I am waiting for the day when Steve Brown finally admits that The Crescent is the quintessential factor pertaining to all things central Dallas. When he does finally confess to this, he will be conveying what others have long known. What Northpark is today to the incredible amount of upscale shopping surrounding it, and what the Houston Galleria is to the retail in the Uptown area of Houston as well, The Crescent development has become the same for central Dallas.
This is a missing factor that central Houston does not have. The central Houston area does not have a Crescent like development to threaten the status of both the Houston Galleria and Uptown Houston in general as they are considered the prime retail center for the Gulf coast area. In stark contrast, the day could soon arrive in North Texas when the status in and around The Crescent will eclipse that of NorthPark Center.
I think the writing is on the wall for those who own NorthPark.
Shoot, I don't even consider Highland Park Village Shopping Center to count in this competition as its owners don't even consider themselves as part of the competition in North Texas. It exists in a whole other universe as it considers its competition to be coming from just a few luxury shopping centers in North America.
Again, in this debate, I think the importance of The Crescent development in Uptown is being taken for granted. While you say that the focus shouldn't be put onretail, I think that is the deciding facter leading one to favor central Dallas.
In regards to the Dallas Arts District, you won't ever read in the paper that it has become a wasteland for retail. While it is located a bit too far from The Crescent; meanwhile, another area in an older part of downtown in and around the Joule Hotel and Main Street has come roaring back to life to steal its thunder. Meanwhile, didn't Seven Eleven decide recently to relocate its headquarters out of downtown to Irving? The Spire development in the area just sits idle doing nothing and the Museum tower can't find tenants.
Why won't the media admit that this duck ain't quacking like it used to?
I hate addressing issues that will hurt. If you are trying to compare the shopping centers in Houston to those in Dallas, you're going to get your feelings hurt. The high quality of shopping centers in Dallas will make you ill as it is sickening thinking about it. Where do you even begin? In contrast, it doesn't take long for the quality of shopping centers in Houston to fall off.
To show you that I have put a lot of consideration into this, I really like the retail village at the intersection of Bellaire and Bissonet in the city of Bellaire. Pasadena too has retail that I like. It takes a lot of effort to appreciate retail. It doesn't stick way up there in the sky like an empty office buidling.
In comparison to a park, I consider a plaza to be an unplanned civil thing. In the beginning a park will have a ho hum legitimate intention. Over time, as lots of these parks and other places get blended together, along with the trees maturing over time, the area will begin to get recognized as more of a spontaneous civil thing. In Dallas, these civil plaza like areas tend to incorporate retail.
The neighborhood of Lakewood is a good example of this. In this neighborhood is Whiterock Lake, assorted parks, and the Dallas Arboretum. Also in this same neighborhood is Lakewood shopping village, the Casa Linda shopping center, and a recent redeveloped shopping center close to the dam of White Rock. I would include the Hillside Shopping Center that was built by Caruth, but I don't want to over do it.
I find looking at the original legal intentions of parks to be boring. Little Bobby should play over here. Jeff will throw a ball to his dog Ralph over there. These are concepts being made by people who are out of touch, eat way too much cheesecake, and have better things to do. Parks have to endure for a long time in my opinion before they will finally meld together and be accepted as an overall civil plaza.
When Bob Hope on the Tonight Show said that a view out of the window of a Houston hotel was the most beautiful sight had ever seen in his life, he wasn't just looking at a legal park. He was including the whole civil plaza around the Herman Park area.
This being said, an important ingredient of the overall civil plaza is retail and Houston is severely lacking of that.
To further explain what I'm trying to express here, an outside visitor will be unaware of the names and boundaries of parks. All they will see is the overall plaza. Someone walking down the Katy Trail for instance won't be able to discern it from the prior classic area that was Turtle Creek and its own parks and trails. They also won't be able to discern between it and Riverchon park which was built during the depression. The visitors also won't be able to discern that the Katy Trail was once a level railroad track. As they walk along the at grade trail, in contrast to it, the grade of the Turtle Creek area will rise and fall. What they are sensing is the overall civil plaza and not the legal intentions of those who originally disigned each individual park or attraction.
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