Is East Texas culturally part of the Deep South? (Houston: living in, restaurant)

[doctorjef]

Oh yeah, forgot about the chronic wind problem in Last Picture Show. Still, it was sort of an hyperbole of what happens in West Texas, with periodic wind/dust storms. The Last Picture Show was released when I was a teenager in Lubbock -- it didn't seem that far-fetched to me at the time. I must say, TexasReb, I do take issue with describing it as a hardscrabble Southern town. Well, yes and no. Irrespective of the elements of Southerness that are posited, the town portrayed in Last Picture Show conveyed elements of West Texan-ness that simply don't fit in with the iconic South, but certainly do resonate with my own real-life experiences of West Texas (really not at all like Monroe, Louisiana where I also spent a couple of adolescent years).

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

Oh yeah, forgot about the chronic wind problem in Last Picture Show. Still, it was sort of an hyperbole of what happens in West Texas, with periodic wind/dust storms. The Last Picture Show was released when I was a teenager in Lubbock -- it didn't seem that far-fetched to me at the time. I must say, TexasReb, I do take issue with describing it as a hardscrabble Southern town. Well, yes and no. Irrespective of the elements of Southerness that are posited, the town portrayed in Last Picture Show conveyed elements of West Texan-ness that simply don't fit in with the iconic South, but certainly do resonate with my own real-life experiences of West Texas (really not at all like Monroe, Louisiana where I also spent a couple of adolescent years).

Well, of course I would agree completely that it (the fictional town) doesn't fit the popular image of the "iconic South." But then again, very few towns/cities west of Ft. Worth do. That is why I try to be careful to label that area the "western South." Very much different from the southeast or Lower South, but being, in terms of culture and attitudes, etc, just the South moved into a more "western" type physical environment, as in a way to totally offset it from the interior Southwest...

You have a very good point about the "hyperbole" -- from a cinematic angle -- as to the continually blowing dust storms in the movie. I have to admit I never thought about it as such, but it makes good sense, as it is!

Most everyone probably knows this, but on a note of related trivia, in the novel, the town was Thailia, Texas. In the movie, it was Anarene (now a "ghost town"). In "real life" it was Archer City, which is where Larry McMurtry grew up.

[doctorjef]

In a weird way, Anarene was much like a black-and-white version of the fictional ghost town (somwhere around Marfa, I suppose) portrayed in the less well-known movie, Come Back to the Five and Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean. That had a far more limited set and was closer to a stage play set-up than Last Picture Show, but featured one of the late Sandy Dennis's amazing, disturbed and disturbing, tragic performances (as well as a very credible performance by Cher). The latter movie in a way might be said to be more classically Southern - in sort of a Tennessee Williams way - while being located in a more definitely Southwestern portion of Texas.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

In a weird way, Anarene was much like a black-and-white version of the fictional ghost town (somwhere around Marfa, I suppose) portrayed in the less well-known movie, Come Back to the Five and Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean. That had a far more limited set and was closer to a stage play set-up than Last Picture Show, but featured one of the late Sandy Dennis's amazing, disturbed and disturbing, tragic performances (as well as a very credible performance by Cher). The latter movie in a way might be said to be more classically Southern - in sort of a Tennessee Williams way - while being located in a more definitely Southwestern portion of Texas.

I haven't seen that one, but I am going to put it on "my list" to watch. Actually (and I think you might have mentioned this one earlier...? the most "classic Southern" movie -- IMHO -- about Texas and filmed in Texas, was "Places in the Heart" (with Sally Fields and Danny Glover). I remember reading that the writer/producer of the film based a noteable part of it on the story of his own great-grandmother, that he had grown up hearing when he was a kid.

My own grandmother loved that movie, and used to tell me that is was probably the most accurate depiction of life -- as she remembered it -- in "Depression Era Texas" -- that she had ever seen.

I have to admit, I have a special "place in my own heart" for it!

[doctorjef]

Agreed that Places is a great movie and one of my all time favorites. It also seemed to conform very much to my mother's accounts of her childhood during the Depression growing up on a ranch in Denton Co.

[Texas Partisan Ranger]

If East Texas is not part of the Deep South the USA is not in North America.

[KathrynAragon]

I was born in New Orleans and grew up in Louisiana, Tennessee, Virginia, NC, SC, Georgia, and Alabama. I would say that makes me pretty much an expert on the South!

Here's my take on it. Yes, East Texas seems more "southern" than the rest of Texas, and yes, many East Texans consider themselves deeply Southern. However, I can assure you - East Texas is NOT the Deep South, whether some residents believe it is or not.

And the accent in East Texas is not even CLOSE to a Deep South accent. Deep South accents are slow and easy and smooth around the edges. East Texan accents have a lot more "twang" to them.

That being said, as a "deep Souther" transplant to East Texas, it's the next best thing to being there. Y'all still don't know how to cook grits right, though. But I'll get over it. I like it here and after twenty years, I guess it's safe to say I'm probably staying!

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

I was born in New Orleans and grew up in Louisiana, Tennessee, Virginia, NC, SC, Georgia, and Alabama. I would say that makes me pretty much an expert on the South!

Here's my take on it. Yes, East Texas seems more "southern" than the rest of Texas, and yes, many East Texans consider themselves deeply Southern. However, I can assure you - East Texas is NOT the Deep South, whether some residents believe it is or not.

And the accent in East Texas is not even CLOSE to a Deep South accent. Deep South accents are slow and easy and smooth around the edges. East Texan accents have a lot more "twang" to them.

That being said, as a "deep Souther" transplant to East Texas, it's the next best thing to being there. Y'all still don't know how to cook grits right, though. But I'll get over it. I like it here and after twenty years, I guess it's safe to say I'm probably staying!

As someone who has also lived in the southeast, I wholeheartedly disagree, but we're all entitled to our opinions.

The Deep South is hardly monolithic. There is no one "Deep South" accent. Folks from Mississippi don't sound just like folks from South Carolina, and they both have their own customs and way of doing things, just like East Texas, which is undoubtedly a member of the DS.

Where exactly in ET do you live?

[Redlionjr]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

I was born in New Orleans and grew up in Louisiana, Tennessee, Virginia, NC, SC, Georgia, and Alabama. I would say that makes me pretty much an expert on the South!

Here's my take on it. Yes, East Texas seems more "southern" than the rest of Texas, and yes, many East Texans consider themselves deeply Southern. However, I can assure you - East Texas is NOT the Deep South, whether some residents believe it is or not.

And the accent in East Texas is not even CLOSE to a Deep South accent. Deep South accents are slow and easy and smooth around the edges. East Texan accents have a lot more "twang" to them.

That being said, as a "deep Souther" transplant to East Texas, it's the next best thing to being there. Y'all still don't know how to cook grits right, though. But I'll get over it. I like it here and after twenty years, I guess it's safe to say I'm probably staying!

I think you're lying. First of all most New Orleans(except for black N.O. residents) don't even consider themselves southern in the sense of "Old South". VA,Tenn,SC,NC,GA,AL have different accents. Similar pronounciation but each sound different. Texas(specifically) East Texas is like last southern frontier. Its ppl in ETX sound just like some ppl in Memphis. The fact that I grew up in the area of Ark-La-Tex will let you know how deep those southern roots are.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

As someone who has also lived in the southeast, I wholeheartedly disagree, but we're all entitled to our opinions.

The Deep South is hardly monolithic. There is no one "Deep South" accent. Folks from Mississippi don't sound just like folks from South Carolina, and they both have their own customs and way of doing things, just like East Texas, which is undoubtedly a member of the DS.

Where exactly in ET do you live?

You must have missed a finer point of my post - I'll post it again with the pertinent word bolded:

And the accent in East Texas is not even CLOSE to a Deep South accent. Deep South accents are slow and easy and smooth around the edges. East Texan accents have a lot more "twang" to them.

Note that the word "accents" is plural. I'm very familiar with the accents of the south, and the DEEP south. But my point is that Deep South accents are more rounded, and a LOT less twangy, than Texas accents.

And yes, we'll have to agree to disagree I guess.

I live in Northeast Texas in a small town, by the way. I've lived in several northeast Texas towns over the past twenty years.