Is East Texas culturally part of the Deep South? (Howe: money, business)

[mrfoe]

Deep south ends in east tex. The south ends in central texas

[doctorjef]

This demonstrates why one really can't identify with Texas as a whole except as an abstraction. There is a world of difference between Lubbock and Beaumont, for example; or between Dickens and Woodville. While Southern culture permeates the state as at least a substrate, the differences between the overtly Deep Southern culture and geography of East Texas, the Plains farm culture and geography of the South Plains, the Tejano infused culture of South Texas, amongst other distinct areas, is huge. IMO you can be deeply enculturated and authentically identified with a particular region within Texas, but identification with the state as a whole is far more notional and abstract than one's lived experience of any particular region. Having said that, a large part of it all is the difference between urban living on the one hand, and rural/small town living on the other. Even so, in my own experience I can't see that many similarities to life in Lubbock and life in Austin -- other than the general commonalities of residing in the USA and more globally within a developed Western society. This isn't a criticism; other states and countries have similar internal discontinuities and regionalism. It's not even always a function of size, though in some instances it is. A prime example would be the great discontinuity between pre-Civil War Virginia plantation culture in the majority of the state, contrasting with the significantly different culture and economy of the northwestern Appalachian part of the state, which ultimately became West Virginia (admittedly something that would never have occurred had it not been for the Civil War, and pace our historians here, some counties were incorporated into West VA that were actually loyal to Virginia and the Confederacy; something similar happened in the British creation of Northern Ireland).

[Cacao]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

This demonstrates why one really can't identify with Texas as a whole except as an abstraction. There is a world of difference between Lubbock and Beaumont, for example; or between Dickens and Woodville. While Southern culture permeates the state as at least a substrate, the differences between the overtly Deep Southern culture and geography of East Texas, the Plains farm culture and geography of the South Plains, the Tejano infused culture of South Texas, amongst other distinct areas, is huge. IMO you can be deeply enculturated and authentically identified with a particular region within Texas, but identification with the state as a whole is far more notional and abstract than one's lived experience of any particular region. Having said that, a large part of it all is the difference between urban living on the one hand, and rural/small town living on the other. Even so, in my own experience I can't see that many similarities to life in Lubbock and life in Austin -- other than the general commonalities of residing in the USA and more globally within a developed Western society. This isn't a criticism; other states and countries have similar internal discontinuities and regionalism. It's not even always a function of size, though in some instances it is. A prime example would be the great discontinuity between pre-Civil War Virginia plantation culture in the majority of the state, contrasting with the significantly different culture and economy of the northwestern Appalachian part of the state, which ultimately became West Virginia (admittedly something that would never have occurred had it not been for the Civil War, and pace our historians here, some counties were incorporated into West VA that were actually loyal to Virginia and the Confederacy; something similar happened in the British creation of Northern Ireland).

I agree. There doesn't seem to be one single constant found throughout the entire state.

[doctorjef]

Originally Posted by Cacao

I agree. There doesn't seem to be one single constant found throughout the entire state.

I think the most obvious constant is rather trivial but also a basic part of everyday life: staple forms of native cooking/comfort food. It's been said that amongst assimilating ethnic groups, the cooking is the thing longest retained and last to go. The old basic cooking of Texas is tripartite in nature and found throughout the state: Southern staples (often with a Texas twist), Tex-Mex, and BBQ (with the emphasis on beef).

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

I think the most obvious constant is rather trivial but also a basic part of everyday life: staple forms of native cooking/comfort food. It's been said that amongst assimilating ethnic groups, the cooking is the thing longest retained and last to go. The old basic cooking of Texas is tripartite in nature and found throughout the state: Southern staples (often with a Texas twist), Tex-Mex, and BBQ (with the emphasis on beef).

If I had to pick JUST ONE of the many traits which (IMHO, of course) would be the one which solidifies Texas as an essentially Southern state, it would be the language; as in the sense of Southern American English being the general inclusive and enduring speech of most natives (particularly those of us over 40 years and out of the major urban areas). The accent, the dialect, the idiom and the lingo, the cadences and rhythms ...are all Southern in origin and continuity.

And I agree, there is (ironically) lots of what factors a state into a region, is/can be, little trivial traits that are often overlooked when considering the question....

Oh well, it was a tough one to call, but I had to go with that one (speech patterons) over "food"...but dammit, they are VERY close!

Along with that, it is sometime the things which seem the most "trivial", that are actually the most noteable and lasting of all. If for no other reason that they are the ones which come to mind first and are remembered...

[doctorjef]

It's true that speech patterns all over Texas are essentially Southern, but I find the predominant accent varieties to be noticeably different. West Texans, for example, sound different from the native Anglo accent of the Hill Country and San Antonio. I do agree, however, that the traditional Texas accents are all Southern and found throughout the state, with the exception that amongst younger people in urban areas you may find a more "standard" American speech pattern.

Having said that, there are always exceptions. LBJ's accent in my estimation was closer to West Texas than to his own native Hill Country region. The twanginess of John Henry Faulk exemplifies the Hill Country and Anglo San Antonio accent in my experience (Faulk can still be heard on recordings made during his lifetime). However, some of this also obviously has to do with individual vocal characteristics -- Faulk had a fairly high voice, while LBJ had a deeper voice. Still, when I first moved from Lubbock to Austin, I really noticed the difference in accents amongst long-term area natives of the two regions.

[Julio July]

Most of East Texas is as Deep South as Deep South can get, outside of Mississippi and Alabama. Especially DEEP East Texas.

[Spade]

East Texas is in that same mold as Northern Louisiana, Southern Arkansas, and Western Mississippi.

[KathrynAragon]

East Texas is hereby granted honorary membership into the Deep South Club, if it's so important to some of it's residents. It can be like someone handing over the "keys to the city."

[txstate]

Is water wet?