Is East Texas culturally part of the Deep South? (Houston: paint, ethnic)

[Redlionjr]

Originally Posted by themosthated

*Americans. Off topic slightly but this needed to be clarified.

No I had it right the first time. ENSLAVED AFRICANS. At that time they were considered property purchased or kidnapped from Africa or from the colonies in the Caribbean's (who also of course originated in Africa). My ancestors weren't granted citizenship till the 14th Amendment and that was AFTER the Civil War. Let's not get caught up in semantics.

Maybe you should brush up on your history and read the Dred Scott v. Sandford decision where the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT ruled that enslaved people WERE NOT CITIZENS of THE UNITED STATES.

[Pilsn3r]

Originally Posted by themosthated

Citizenship is just a piece of paper, and even if that weren't the case it still wouldn't make them Africans, technically speaking.

The nationality of these people was American, and these are the facts. It's not just semantics but that they deserve to be recognized for what they were.

Ummm...wow. Just wow.

Well, I guess all those immigrants crossing the border every day are US citizens as soon as they set foot on US soil. Thanks for clearing that up!

[Redlionjr]

Originally Posted by themosthated

Citizenship is just a piece of paper, and even if that weren't the case it still wouldn't make them Africans, technically speaking.

The nationality of these people was American, and these are the facts. It's not just semantics but that they deserve to be recognized for what they were.

No the United States Supreme Court ruled otherwise. You can't just make up the rules as you see fit. The law was THE LAW. I mean if that's the case than there's no such thing as an immigrant. As soon as you step on this soil your an AMERICAN and that's the bottom line. If I go to Canada than I'm a Canadian. Now believing they deserve to be recognized as Americans and what they were considered by LAW during that time are 2 different completely things.

Also another historical fact, the few times we saw those enslaved people identify themselves they didn't really identify themselves as American. That concept largely came about after the CIVIL WAR. Some identified themselves as simply FREE PEOPLE, some identified themselves as slaves. Some even identified themselves with the ethnic group they derived from out of Africa for a short period here in America. You even had FREE Black people such as Richard Allen and Absalom Jones that identified as simply AFRICAN back in the late 1700s. And we know this because they created organization such as the FREE AFRICAN SOCIETY and later the African Methodist Episcopal church.

Identity during chattel slavery was a lot more complicated than you think. You're using 2022 glasses to try to paint a narrative. I'm speaking in historical context. Get out your feelings.

[Pilsn3r]

Originally Posted by themosthated

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. The Slave Trade Act of 1794 barred enslaved Africans from entering the United States, which means that in 1860 virtually all black slaves would not have been immigrants but American-born nationals. Just because their citizenship had yet to be honored doesn't mean they weren't in fact American.

Wrong, try again. 1794 banned American ships from bringing slaves. Non-American ships continued to bring slaves. When importation of slaves was banned in the 1800s, slaves were brought to Spanish Florida and the Republic of Texas. Neither became a state until the mid 1800s. Then slaves were still illegally smuggled into the US through Galveston and Houston and other ports away from the east coast.

As an aside, some posters on here still consider children of immigrants (no matter black or Hispanic) born on US soil to not be US
citizens.

[Redlionjr]

Originally Posted by themosthated

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. The Slave Trade Act of 1794 barred enslaved Africans from entering the United States, which means that in 1860 virtually all black slaves would not have been immigrants but American-born nationals. Just because their citizenship had yet to be honored doesn't mean they weren't in fact American.

How convenient you acknowledge that law when it benefits your argument but chose to ignore the Dred Scott case in the same sentence.

But let me brush you up on some more history. There was a ban on the importation of slaves passed in 1808. While majority of enslaved people in America came from natural birthing and breeding, Americans still engaged in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade illegally.

The last known slave ship brought to America was the Clotilda which arrived to Mobile Bay, Alabama around 1859 to 1860. Matter fact some of the survivors of that slave shipped lived into the 1930s. I don't know why your so scared of the word AFRICA.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by themosthated

*Americans. Off topic slightly but this needed to be clarified.

Both are wrong, they were not called Africans or Americans