What Motivates All These Threads on Whether or Not Texas Is A Southern State? (Houston: living in, agriculture)

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

All of West Texas certainly doesnt look southern!

No, it doesn't. I have always conceded that part of it. But physical topography pales in comparrison to history and culture and settlement patterns. This is a factor that many seem to either overlook or never consider.

El paso and big bend country as cited above have little southern influence.....they are more hispanic in culture than southern.

I would go along with that the trans-pecos (far west) part of Texas could fairly be considered part of the interior Southwest (i.e. New Mexico and Arizona like). But still, remember that even that area went for secession...and there is a Confederate monument on the El Paso courhouse grounds...

When you consider west texas dont assume the culture of the minority white dominate since hispanics are a huge influence there as well as Houston and San Antonio for that matter.

Uhhhhh, I don't "assume" a damn thing. my friend. I know it. Or at least I have researched it to the point of forming valid conclusions. Just as I am sure you -- and others -- may have researched the subject to the point of taking the same facts and forming your own different opinions. Nothing wrong with that at all. I don't take disagreement personal unless it starts to become personal in tone and content...

But fact is, compared to the real desert SW, the hispanic (and definitely native-American) influence even in west Texas is comparatively recent. San Antonio STILL advertizes itself as a "Blend of the Old South and Old Mexico." The dominating influence on West Texas is that imprinted by southeastern pioneers, who brought with them their language, attitudes, and outlooks. If nothing else, the dominanace of the Southern Baptist Church backs this up.

The whole idea that a state has to fit in a US box like Southern misses the diversity that is texas if we consider all living here as texans as that all their heritages matter.

I am not totally sure of your point here. But let's just say you are saying Texas is TEXAS before anything else? I would agree completely. We have a very unique and different history than other Southern states in many ways and I am PROUD of that.

The ONLY thing I am advancing (along with many others) is that, as a state, when put into a region, Texas -- as a whole -- belongs to the American South.

This was the dominating influence on the development of the state, and to that extent at the least, the numbers of immigrants who came here, indicate it. Clearly Southern and with Southern attitudes.

I stand by my statement that West Texas is not very southern in totality.

And again, in some ways you are right. But I respectfully differ with you in that you are placing an emphasis on topograghy, and ignoring the actually settlement history, instiutions, voting and religious patterns, of West Texas. And even superficial things like...welll? Hey, do you know how many counties in west Texas are named after Confederate figures/heroes...and monuments on courthouse lawns to Southern figures? It only stands to reason given the settlement. And the schools? Midland Robert E. Lee Rebels. Amarillo Tascosa Rebels....

Not trying to be a smarta$$, but a plurality of West Texans would not agree with you according to one survey (at least). Most indicated a "Southern" regional identity. Would you like me to post it for you?

[Two4damoney]

Yep we even have a town in a nearby county called Robert Lee.
Robert Lee, Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Johnhw2]

Sure go Id like to see the post. Be sure to include the footnotes about who and how the poll was done. Plurality is not majority so what else do other consider themselves Western and SW?

[doctorjef]

In talking about cultural identity in the 21st Century I really don't think old Confederate monuments and the names of counties and schools from generations ago are very relevant. We are talking about Today -- not 50 or 60 years ago or more.

[Pontificator]

These related threads do become tiresome, but Texas undeniably generates passions.

Iowa and the like, not so much. (apologies, Iowa)

[doctorjef]

"The narcissism of small differences"

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

Sure go Id like to see the post. Be sure to include the footnotes about who and how the poll was done. Plurality is not majority so what else do other consider themselves Western and SW?

Here it is (and BTW, I don't need a reminder from you to include a source. I hope you get my drift.) :

This particular article was first published in Annals of the Association of American Geographers, in 1987 (77-3). James Shortridge, of the Department of Geography at the University of Kansas, conducted the study.

It was based upon regional self-identification which in turn was dependent upon people buying a particular product and who sent in requested survey cards asking where they were from and what region (East, Midwest, West, and South) they considered themselves to live in .

In totality, 71% of Texas respondents listed "South".

This particular survey covered the whole country, but there were several "transition" areas. That is, where there was no absolute majority. West Texas (i.e. the area west of panhandle of the state) was one of them. HOWEVER, even there, most indicated a "Southern" answer.

****************************************
WEST TEXAS TRANSITION ZONE

South - 47%
West - 22%
Midwest - 30%

*****************************************

What I found interesting is the "Midwest" listing! BUT..apparently so did the conductor of the study itself...and he did a bit of further research. The general conclusion was that many in west Texas who listed "Midwest" were NOT associating their area with the "Midwest" of Kansas or Ohio, but indicating a sort of blend between South and West. No clear regional affiliation...perhaps a part of both?

[ReppingDFW]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

Not to mention over simplification of Texas...what part of the south is like Midland/Odessa or Lubbock or Amarillo or Big Bend or El Paso? Still waiting on the evidence of what is viewed as an oversimplification of the south to call Texas southern

The South Plains area of West Texas probably has the highest concentration of Southern Baptists in the United States, even moreso than the Deep South. I always found that interesting, because I never considered that area part of the South until I started doing research on the topic.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Pontificator

These related threads do become tiresome, but Texas undeniably generates passions.

Iowa and the like, not so much. (apologies, Iowa)

LOL That is true, Pontificator. Who bothers to denigrate Iowa?

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

In talking about cultural identity in the 21st Century I really don't think old Confederate monuments and the names of counties and schools from generations ago are very relevant. We are talking about Today -- not 50 or 60 years ago or more.

Yes, you have a point, DocJ. But keep in mind that the decendents of those southeastern settlers kept -- and still do -- their basic Southern identity. It didn't end with -- as you alluded to yourself earlier with your own family -- that first generation. The fact even most west Texans (not counting the trans-pecos) consider themselves to live in the South and be Southerners is very telling, I think...