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To think most people would be walking from Downtown Dallas to Uptown over a freeway park deck is just foolish. Sure it connects to two areas, but come on, this is Texas, not NYC & that is quite a ways walk anyways. You'd be collapsed dead of a heat stroke by the time you made it across in this brutal Texas heat. Its more of a "just to say we have it & could build it" type of thing.
This is the very reason Houston has an extensive fully air conditioned downtown tunnel system.
Quite a ways walk? It is literally a block from Downtown to Uptown. The new Park is 1 block wide and it is the only thing that separates Downtown from Uptown. I spent several hours in Uptown and Downtown Dallas this weekend and it is a sight to behold all the stuff that is happening in those two areas. And there are at least 10 large apartment/condo developments that are currently under construction in those two areas which are going to add thousands of people so it is going to be even more dense here in the next year or so.
Both have walkable neighborhoods, neither is a walkable city and its foolish to talk like they are.
I find Fort Worth and Austin to be more walkable than Houston or Dallas.
Well, Austin is only walkable very centrally. The city as a whole isn't so much.
I have the impression that Houston and Dallas have multiple districts/areas that are walkable.
If you look up Walkscore of each city, Austin is not the highest.
1. dallas can add all the over priced condo buildings they wish, but when they sit empty and go into foreclosure that does not add actual people
2. the Houston tunnels are so popular they are an attraction unto themselves
3. I think dallas should close their tunnels then people will not have to exit them up to street level to urinate and defecate in the corners of abandoned buildings
4. what a wonderfully informative thread...ignoring the fact that Houston has a convention center downtown that has actually had a major hotel connected to it for years....dallas is just catching up
5. I suppose a major league baseball stadium that people love to go to and see is "nothing" when dallas has their stadium in.....Arlington and it is open air 24X7 and hot as hell most of the year
6. I guess a major league basketball arena is nothing when dallas has theirs in a failed "high end" development outside of downtown proper aptly named "victory" (WINNING!)...that is littered with half (or less) filled high end condo projects
7. I guess having a large park for the last several years that fronts to the convention center, the convention center hotel, the basketball arena, and the baseball stadium is "nothing" when you are building a mostly concrete deck over a freeway next to a soon to be failed highrise condo project
8. I suppose having your arts district with all 4 major arts disciplines represented (Opera, Symphony, Ballet, Theater) is nothing when the venues for those performance companies have been opened for a decade or more while dallas is just catching up on theirs
9. I suppose having a re-purposed former convention place that is now a shopping and entertainment and commercial space next to your theater district is "nothing" when dallas has nothing like that in theirs
10. Houston has had a law school in downtown for several decades......dallas has a law school that can't get opened, will struggle to be relevant, and will probably end up closing or being canceled
11. Houston has a 13,000 student full university downtown......dallas has 600 students in a system center that may be closed soon or be forced to move
12. Houston has had a major department store downtown for decades
13. Houston has Houston Pavilions a major shopping complex in easy walking distance of the convention center and both of the major sports venues and the convention center hotel.......dallas has a convention center hotel with nothing around it for many blocks and then the failed Victory (WINNING!) outside of downtown where everything has closed down and more closings were just announced
yes Houston Pavilions struggled, but the developers keep working at it until they have made it work and things continue to be added to it.....in dallas they realized the "trend" for "upscale" was over and they tossed in the towel in Victory (WINNING!)
14. Downtown Houston has a major book store....dallas not so much
15. Downtown Houston has an Aquarium....so does dallas, but the one in Houston is in Houston so it is automatically better...the one in Houston still has things to do around it.....the one in dallas used to have things to do around it until that trend died and went somewhere else to die yet again.......30,000aires are flighty
16. Houston has a light rail line that is second in the nation in daily boardings per mile that goes from a large public university, through the theater district, past the department store and shopping mall, past a large community college, past a major private university, past the zoo and arts district, through the largest medical complex in the world, and ends at a major sports venue.......dallas has some light rail lines that are #22 in ridership per mile out of 35 averages 18% of the ridership per mile that Houston has.....goes around to some places where apparently no one wants to go to or from and manages to "accomplish" all of that with an 8 year head start......it is like all those neato peachy keen condos......if no one uses it then it is crap.....you might have it, but it is CRAP!
17. Houston has more diplomatic missions downtown that dallas has in the entire metro area
18. dallas has an office vacancy rate of 27% that is expected to climb to 30% soon....Houston has not had a vacancy rate over 18% since 2006 and it has been on the decline since 2010 down to 14.4%
Houston has 37,898,052 SQFT of total office space downtown with 5,469,268 vacant while dallas has 35,157,655 sqft of total office space with 9,711,540 vacant....so dallas loses on total space, but comes in for a HUGE WIN on vacancy
Houston CBD class A office space rents for $34.62 a sqft......dallas $21.25.....in just class A space dallas has a vacancy rate of 21.1% Houston is 11.3%
here is a clue a place can't be "dense" and "walkable" and "livable" and "sustainable" if it is not WORKABLE!....but hey this is dallas we are talking about right just put some shiny lights on it, break out the turd polish (you will need PLENTY OF THAT) and put a stupid new trendy name on the place and people will flock to the next urban utopia and pay TONS of money to do so!......never mind all the jobs growth in dallas is miles and miles away from the CBD!.....WINNING!
hey thanks for this chance to inflict pain upon the delicate look at me Moderator cut: language dallas "sensibilities"
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbarn
I believe that Downtown Dallas has about 125,000 workers and Houston has about 150,000, what exactly are you referring to when you say Houston's downtown is twice as big?
1. dallas can add all the over priced condo buildings they wish, but when they sit empty and go into foreclosure that does not add actual people
2. the Houston tunnels are so popular they are an attraction unto themselves
3. I think dallas should close their tunnels then people will not have to exit them up to street level to urinate and defecate in the corners of abandoned buildings
4. what a wonderfully informative thread...ignoring the fact that Houston has a convention center downtown that has actually had a major hotel connected to it for years....dallas is just catching up
5. I suppose a major league baseball stadium that people love to go to and see is "nothing" when dallas has their stadium in.....Arlington and it is open air 24X7 and hot as hell most of the year
6. I guess a major league basketball arena is nothing when dallas has theirs in a failed "high end" development outside of downtown proper aptly named "victory" (WINNING!)...that is littered with half (or less) filled high end condo projects
7. I guess having a large park for the last several years that fronts to the convention center, the convention center hotel, the basketball arena, and the baseball stadium is "nothing" when you are building a mostly concrete deck over a freeway next to a soon to be failed highrise condo project
8. I suppose having your arts district with all 4 major arts disciplines represented (Opera, Symphony, Ballet, Theater) is nothing when the venues for those performance companies have been opened for a decade or more while dallas is just catching up on theirs
9. I suppose having a re-purposed former convention place that is now a shopping and entertainment and commercial space next to your theater district is "nothing" when dallas has nothing like that in theirs
10. Houston has had a law school in downtown for several decades......dallas has a law school that can't get opened, will struggle to be relevant, and will probably end up closing or being canceled
11. Houston has a 13,000 student full university downtown......dallas has 600 students in a system center that may be closed soon or be forced to move
12. Houston has had a major department store downtown for decades
13. Houston has Houston Pavilions a major shopping complex in easy walking distance of the convention center and both of the major sports venues and the convention center hotel.......dallas has a convention center hotel with nothing around it for many blocks and then the failed Victory (WINNING!) outside of downtown where everything has closed down and more closings were just announced
yes Houston Pavilions struggled, but the developers keep working at it until they have made it work and things continue to be added to it.....in dallas they realized the "trend" for "upscale" was over and they tossed in the towel in Victory (WINNING!)
14. Downtown Houston has a major book store....dallas not so much
15. Downtown Houston has an Aquarium....so does dallas, but the one in Houston is in Houston so it is automatically better...the one in Houston still has things to do around it.....the one in dallas used to have things to do around it until that trend died and went somewhere else to die yet again.......30,000aires are flighty
16. Houston has a light rail line that is second in the nation in daily boardings per mile that goes from a large public university, through the theater district, past the department store and shopping mall, past a large community college, past a major private university, past the zoo and arts district, through the largest medical complex in the world, and ends at a major sports venue.......dallas has some light rail lines that are #22 in ridership per mile out of 35 averages 18% of the ridership per mile that Houston has.....goes around to some places where apparently no one wants to go to or from and manages to "accomplish" all of that with an 8 year head start......it is like all those neato peachy keen condos......if no one uses it then it is crap.....you might have it, but it is CRAP!
17. Houston has more diplomatic missions downtown that dallas has in the entire metro area
18. dallas has an office vacancy rate of 27% that is expected to climb to 30% soon....Houston has not had a vacancy rate over 18% since 2006 and it has been on the decline since 2010 down to 14.4%
Houston has 37,898,052 SQFT of total office space downtown with 5,469,268 vacant while dallas has 35,157,655 sqft of total office space with 9,711,540 vacant....so dallas loses on total space, but comes in for a HUGE WIN on vacancy
Houston CBD class A office space rents for $34.62 a sqft......dallas $21.25.....in just class A space dallas has a vacancy rate of 21.1% Houston is 11.3%
here is a clue a place can't be "dense" and "walkable" and "livable" and "sustainable" if it is not WORKABLE!....but hey this is dallas we are talking about right just put some shiny lights on it, break out the turd polish (you will need PLENTY OF THAT) and put a stupid new trendy name on the place and people will flock to the next urban utopia and pay TONS of money to do so!......never mind all the jobs growth in dallas is miles and miles away from the CBD!.....WINNING!
hey thanks for this chance to inflict pain upon the delicate look at me Moderator cut: language dallas "sensibilities"
even with your side kick to the west.....dragging up the rear.....Fort Worth should really ditch you guys!
I think those numbers you quote lost all credibility when they showed that Austin has 6,900 more employees in their central business district than Dallas and Fort Worth do combined. That is almost laughable. In addition, that list shows places like Cleveland, Columbus, Baltimore and Pittsburgh having many more thousands of workers in their downtowns than Dallas-Fort Worth do combined. Totally untrue and bogus numbers. Not sure how accurate Wikepedia is, or where the numbers on there come from, but according to that source, Downtown Dallas has about 125k employees, and Houston has 150k.
Houston may have more tall buildings and a more consistent population density, but Dallas' urbanity does exceed what Houston currently has. Dallas has many more live, work, play areas in it's core and the more walkable areas all connect to each other and flow nicely. Dallas puts a lot of attention to aesthetic, etc. I can't think of an area in Houston that rivals Uptown Dallas.
I feel like Houston lacks a vibrant DT. I can go multiple blocks of dead spots and quite frankly its kind of creepy. DT Houston needs to increase its DT pop. and increase public transit.
If we closed all of our rail system except from Fair Park to the zoo and Victory Park, we'd probably have a higher number of passengers per mile than Houston and about as much length of tracks...
I feel like Houston lacks a vibrant DT. I can go multiple blocks of dead spots and quite frankly its kind of creepy. DT Houston needs to increase its DT pop. and increase public transit.
Seriously?
Someome from Austin comparing their failed light rail system to Houston's which has one of the highest riderships in the nation?
Houston's light rail opened the same time the one in Minneaplolis did & is the same size yet Houston's ridership is more than double.
Last edited by Metro Matt; 08-14-2012 at 10:45 PM..
Someome from Austin comparing their failed light rail system to Houston's which has one of the highest riderships in the nation?
Houston's light rail opened the same time the one in Minneaplolis did & is the same size yet Houston's ridership is more than double.
And yet it still lacks a vibrant DT around the clock. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Look, I've spent plenty of time in both Dallas and Houston's DT, and quite frankly, Dallas wins. I'll have my opinions and you'll have yours. Case closed
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Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Look, I've spent plenty of time in both Dallas and Houston's DT, and quite frankly, Dallas wins. I'll have my opinions and you'll have yours. Case closed 
