Highways are a detriment to Texas' large cities... (Houston, Dallas: living in, dangerous)

[Trae713]

I don't see what the big beef is with frontage roads. You can still make the sides of freeways attractive with frontage roads. They make everything easier and keeps some traffic off of the secondary roads. I mean, youre in the city, not countryside. Not placing feeder roads isnt going to stop development. Metro areas built in heavily forested areas are different cases than say a Kansas City, LA, or DFW, where you can see the commercial development regardless if there are feeders or not.

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

That was planned , but stopped...

They still have freeways in other parts of the city. Though NYC and DC probably have the least amount of freeways going through the city.

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by Trae713

I don't see what the big beef is with frontage roads. You can still make the sides of freeways attractive with frontage roads. They make everything easier and keeps some traffic off of the secondary roads. I mean, youre in the city, not countryside. Not placing feeder roads isnt going to stop development. Metro areas built in heavily forested areas are different cases than say a Kansas City, LA, or DFW, where you can see the commercial development regardless if there are feeders or not.



They still have freeways in other parts of the city. Though NYC and DC probably have the least amount of freeways going through the city.

In The Woodlands you can't really see the commercial development at all on the other side of the feeder roads from all the 80 foot tall pines creating a buffer zone.

In Northern Houston where you used to be able to see the development on the feeder roads this is changing as those 3 & 6 foot tall pines planted a few years back in 2003-2005 are now 10 & 12 feet tall dense ever green vegetation.

In South Houston those thousands of palm trees planted along I-45 have created a sort of buffer zone too & look very SoCal or Florida-ish.

The Katy Freeway will look similar in the near future as those planted trees continue to grow.

288 has been looking good since that barren grassy median was landscaped 7 or 8 years ago.

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by curtbr72

I hate freeways with a passion. They cut of neighborhoods and force people to get in their cars to drive three blocks to the grocery store. TXDOT should have invested some of that money toward mass transit.

LOL.

I think TXDOT should get rid of the rivers and creeks and rivers, too. Oh, and all those people who own private property, I should be able to walk across it rather than go three blocks out of my way.

Why did they build the store over there? They should build one right next to me. Better yet, get me a chef who can pour in down my throat while I sit on the couch!

So-called Mass transit sucks. Instead of being at the store in 3 minutes, I'd have to wait an hour for a bus. And I have to be ready to go caveman on some punk, too.

TXDOT did invest in mass transit. Its called I-35, I-45, US 287, and all the FM and FRs.

[JJG]

Originally Posted by TX75007

LOL.

I think TXDOT should get rid of the rivers and creeks and rivers, too. Oh, and all those people who own private property, I should be able to walk across it rather than go three blocks out of my way.

Why did they build the store over there? They should build one right next to me. Better yet, get me a chef who can pour in down my throat while I sit on the couch!

So-called Mass transit sucks. Instead of being at the store in 3 minutes, I'd have to wait an hour for a bus. And I have to be ready to go caveman on some punk, too.

TXDOT did invest in mass transit. Its called I-35, I-45, US 287, and all the FM and FRs.

^^^ And this is pure ignorance on the OTHER side....

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by JJG

^^^ And this is pure ignorance on the OTHER side....

All you can do is just shake your head.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by elan

Unless it's underground, mass transit divides neighborhoods too. I don't think you could go underground in Houston (flooding) or Austin (too many springs). Aren't there usually grocery stores on both sides of a highway or freeway? I sometimes walk to the store, but mostly drive because I don't want to lug all that stuff home (especially when it's 100). And, half the traffic problems would be solved if people would live closer to where they work. If you work in the burbs, live in the burbs. If you work in the city, live in the city.

It depends , Mass Transit has less of a neglect affect then Highways do , if its Elevated or at grade with stations people can access them and that generally has a positive affect on the neighborhood. Stations also have a positive affect on property values which tend to go up instead of down with highways that's mainly due to noise and crime that comes with highways.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by Trae713

I don't see what the big beef is with frontage roads. You can still make the sides of freeways attractive with frontage roads. They make everything easier and keeps some traffic off of the secondary roads. I mean, youre in the city, not countryside. Not placing feeder roads isnt going to stop development. Metro areas built in heavily forested areas are different cases than say a Kansas City, LA, or DFW, where you can see the commercial development regardless if there are feeders or not.



They still have freeways in other parts of the city. Though NYC and DC probably have the least amount of freeways going through the city.

Yes , but the highways are mainly outside the core areas and there mainly used by trucks due to our Horrible Interstate Railway Network. NYC balked at any attempt for a New Harbor Tunnel for Freight trains even though it would have removed 70% of the trucks.... By 2030 in the Northeast will should have removed or replaced 70 miles of Urban Highways with Tunnels or Wide Boulevards. Another 90 miles of Urban and Suburban Freeways will be capped by 2035 , reconnecting neighborhoods and towns served by the highways... We also make use our highways , In NJ every Highway will loose a lane which will be converted into Bus lanes....with stations in Urban Areas....

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by curtbr72

I hate freeways with a passion. They cut of neighborhoods and force people to get in their cars to drive three blocks to the grocery store. TXDOT should have invested some of that money toward mass transit.

Is it somehow better for people to take mass transit to the grocery store?

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by JJG

^^^ And this is pure ignorance on the OTHER side....

Are you a civil engineer? An engineer at all? Sat on any planning boards? Any long-term planning creds? Know anything about the history of the roads in Texas?

My guess is you have not. In fact, just about no one on this thread has cited the history of roads in TX.

In most cases the roads were built LONG before the neighborhoods and then the latter grew up around them. In many other cases, the right of ways were railroad right of ways that were converted - DNT, MOPAC, and PGBT are examples of this. In ALL cases, it was the roads that led to settlement and growth.

The Austin Chalk and related limestone outcrops, cattle drives, and the non-navigability of TX rivers drove settlement and road development in TX more than anything else. The first roads followed the buffalo trails and indian trails along the chalk. Floods and then drought also had an impact as adjustments for both had to been made. The railroads later allowed the clay soil regions to be settled and the roads then followed the rail lines as the latter allowed for material to be brought in to build the roads.

HIGHWAY DEVELOPMENT | The Handbook of Texas Online| Texas State Historical Association (TSHA)

The American Cowboy

Then came the interstates which were a huge economic positive.

Interstate Highway System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The FM system was established to improve markets in TX and to improve the rural areas.

Texas state highways - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Farm-to-market road - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have established that I am not ignorant about the roads in TX. In fact, I actually cited sources and posted links.

[Willsson]

Doesn't make a lot of sense. Historically, population was more rural than urban. The rural resident gets on the big freeway to drive to the big city and once he gets there it's a traffic jam because everyone's stuck at a stop sign behind a couple of dozen semi's hauling groceries across the country. Big cities aren't there only for those residents. They are centers of commerce.