Should Texas Students Have to Pledge Allegiance to Texas? (Houston: lawyers, agriculture)

[Austinite101]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Justify the Northern slave trade.



So show me where any say that...alone and singular? I am prepared to wait until Hell freezes over...



In retrospect, I probably shoudn't You are not capable of understanding --it seems -- concepts of federalism....



Yep, that's it. HAHAHAHAHA It all just comes down to "We want the right to enslave African-Americans" *getting over laughing fit* Curious though...what did the Africans who sold their own into slavery to the Northern slave traders, think?

And oh yeah, what about the free blacks who owned slaves...?

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms



You mean there is a difference?? OK, Ok, I couldn't resist that one...



I don't "forget" it at all. The CSA constituion specifically outlawed the slave trade. Wanna see how the northern states avoided it? Here ya go:

The Northern Slave Trade - In These Times

Traces of the Trade » Northern Involvement in the Slave Trade



Because a "Civil War", defined, means a war fought between two factions within the same country. In the case of the War Between the States, it was one fought between two soveriegn nations. The united States (the northern states who kept the name by default...the "Union"), and the Southern states who withdrew from the Old Union, and formed their own nation (The Confederate States of America).



Sure you did. It is very evident in all your remarks and tone of voice. But ok, I will be lenient on that one....maybe you didn't.

Not maybe. I didn't. If you took it that way, its too bad because I didn't intend to.

And the international slave trade was the only thing the confederates banned. Plus, it was only to placate the border states.

It was not two sovereign nations. It was one sovereign nation, the US, against an illegitimate rebel "government". No foreign nation ever recognized it as such too. The states never had the right to leave.

Its obvious that arguing with you is pointless. Its ok. Most people in this country aren't very good with history, so you aren't alone.

I'm done with this topic. Mod is probably going to delete everything too. This is my last word on the matter.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Austinite101

Not maybe. I didn't. If you took it that way, its too bad because I didn't intend to.

And the international slave trade was the only thing the confederates banned. Plus, it was only to placate the border states.

It was not two sovereign nations. It was one sovereign nation, the US, against an illegitimate rebel "government". No foreign nation ever recognized it as such too. The states never had the right to leave.

Its obvious that arguing with you is pointless. Its ok. Most people in this country aren't very good with history, so you aren't alone.

I'm done with this topic. Mod is probably going to delete everything too. This is my last word on the matter.

Probably best it is...because I promise to reply each and every time..

Did the colonies have a "right" to declare their independence from England? If so, please explain why the Southern states did not have the right to leave a voluntary Union of states? The Treaty of Paris recognized the "states" as soveriegn entities...not one nation. Independent states...each mentioned seperately. And for good reason...

LMAO. The states never had the right to leave? This is too damn funny. The "states" you speak of had just "seceded" from England. So are you actually suggesting they would have entered into a Union of their own choosing, where it was aforehand understood they were bound to it forever? This is beyond ridiculous. It would have totally repudiated the whole concept of the underlying principle that the nation was founded upon to begin with:

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

The Southern states only wanted to go their own way, in peace. They had no plans to invade the North, nor to do anything but mutually co-exist. Instead, the Lincoln administration chose to provoke a war and invade a people who had done them no wrong to begin with..'

Try again...

[madrone2k]

I hate it when I thread I finally want to participate in is about to be deleted :-)

But, is there time for a little more discussion of ideas?

When I was a kid, growing up in Houston in the 60s, I read a book in junior high (i think) that speculated on what the course of history would have been if the south had won the war between the states. not an unexpected piece of speculation these days, but i thought i was pretty imaginative at the time. aside from moral & ethical issues, would an economic system based on slavery be able to persist and be competitive in the world we see today?

That's one idea we could discuss. More importantly, how can we reconcile our reverence for the commitment to human rights expressed in the declarations and the constitution (and bill of rights) with the institution of slavery. for me, that is a topic that is hard to dismiss so easily, regardless of our emotional attachments to our sense of tribe.

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by madrone2k

I hate it when I thread I finally want to participate in is about to be deleted :-)

But, is there time for a little more discussion of ideas?

When I was a kid, growing up in Houston in the 60s, I read a book in junior high (i think) that speculated on what the course of history would have been if the south had won the war between the states. not an unexpected piece of speculation these days, but i thought i was pretty imaginative at the time. aside from moral & ethical issues, would an economic system based on slavery be able to persist and be competitive in the world we see today?

That's one idea we could discuss. More importantly, how can we reconcile our reverence for the commitment to human rights expressed in the declarations and the constitution (and bill of rights) with the institution of slavery. for me, that is a topic that is hard to dismiss so easily, regardless of our emotional attachments to our sense of tribe.

Have you seen this movie?? lol


The Confederate States of America - YouTube

[Rathagos]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Austin? You dont know what you are talking about.

You could have ended your post right there!

I decided that you can't debate with someone like Austinite. They don't discuss based on opinion or fact, they debate based on what they want to believe is right.

"Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine

[Austinite101]

Originally Posted by Rathagos

You could have ended your post right there!

I decided that you can't debate with someone like Austinite. They don't discuss based on opinion or fact, they debate based on what they want to believe is right.

"Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine

That's funny, because I think the same of you

[busterkeaton]

To the Texas flag? No. To the planet Kolob's flag? A resounding....you betcha!

[thenewtexan]

Originally Posted by busterkeaton

To the Texas flag? No. To the planet Kolob's flag? A resounding....you betcha!

Comic relief. Thank God.

[Boompa]

There is a great need to explain thye INDIVISIBLE part to them. Seccession is Treason and Seccessionist are Traitors who took up arms against the United States

[zhugeliang1]

I'm surprised Texas even pledges allegiance to the US flag at all. I would think they would just do the Texas pledge nothing else.