Which major Texas metropolitan area is prepared to handle growth next 30 years the best (Houston: buses, safe)

[Fairlady Z]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

No...I said that in response to Houston having all of its stadiums connected by that itty bitty streetcar line in downtown Houston.

My point is how can you rip us for driving to our stadiums, yet its perfectly fine with you to drive to Cowboys Stadium or the Rangers Ballpark because its "worth the drive." Seems a bit hypocritical to me. Also who said rail was the only method of getting to sports venues. All of Houston's sports venue are accessible by bus and will soon be by light rail when part of the expansion is done next year. Same cannot not be said for the Metroplex. Only the AA Center is reachable by public transit while the venues in Arlington and Frisco are not at all.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by Fairlady Z

My point is how can you rip us for driving to our stadiums, yet its perfectly fine with you to drive to Cowboys Stadium or the Rangers Ballpark because its "worth the drive." Seems a bit hypocritical to me. Also who said rail was the only method of getting to sports venues. All of Houston's sports venue are accessible by bus and will soon be by light rail when part of the expansion is done next year. Same cannot not be said for the Metroplex. Only the AA Center is reachable by public transit while the venues in Arlington and Frisco are not at all.

You're still not getting it...The rip was initially on Dallas for not having all of our statiums downtown and connected by rail...So I then pointed out how useless it was for houston's to be connected by rail because the rail serves nobody.The driving to the stadiums part was your mix up. I was talking about driving all the way to a train station...you know...to get access to the line that connects all the stadiums. I then pointed out how in Dallas that same feat would be much much easier from all of the suburbs I mentioned.

[Fairlady Z]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

You're still not getting it...The rip was initially on Dallas for not having all of our statiums downtown and connected by rail...So I then pointed out how useless it was for houston's to be connected by rail because the rail serves nobody.The driving to the stadiums part was your mix up. I was talking about driving all the way to a train station...you know...to get access to the line that connects all the stadiums. I then pointed out how in Dallas that same feat would be much much easier from all of the suburbs I mentioned.

I get what you mean by us having to drive to stadiums or a rail station, because rail is pitiful here in Houston. But my major gripe with your reasoning is in this quote.

And as for the Cowboys and Ranger games..if I really wanted to go,it would be worth the drive.

You really don't have a choice at all in the matter. Rail nor bus isn't available at all for either of them. Only the AA Center has that luxury. Your post seems to imply its no big deal for you guys to drive to Arlington to catch a game but its a problem for us to drive to the Toyota Center or Minute Maid Park. A bit of inconsistency there. Houstonians within the Beltway 8 and definitely with the Loop can reach all venues by either rail, bus, or a combination of both. Yes, it is a bit of a long trek for someone from Katy or the Woodlands to watch a Rockets game, but how is that different for someone from Ft Worth or McKinney to catch a Mavs game?

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by Fairlady Z

I get what you mean by us having to drive to stadiums or a rail station, because rail is pitiful here in Houston. But my major gripe with your reasoning is in this quote.



You really don't have a choice at all in the matter. Rail nor bus isn't available at all for either of them. Only the AA Center has that luxury. Your post seems to imply its no big deal for you guys to drive to Arlington to catch a game but its a problem for us to drive to the Toyota Center or Minute Maid Park. A bit of inconsistency there. Houstonians within the Beltway 8 and definitely with the Loop can reach all venues by either rail, bus, or a combination of both. Yes, it is a bit of a long trek for someone from Katy or the Woodlands to watch a Rockets game, but how is that different for someone from Ft Worth or McKinney to catch a Mavs game?

I said... "The Initial rip was on Dallas for NOT having all of or stadiums connected by rail" Yes I know theres no train or bus service to those two stadiums. My point was that even with the connected stadiums in Houston its just as bad to get to a game because the Rail system is so small.

[Fairlady Z]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

I said... "The Initial rip was on Dallas for NOT having all of or stadiums connected by rail" Yes I know theres no train or bus service to those two stadiums. My point was that even with the connected stadiums in Houston its just as bad to get to a game because the Rail system is so small.

My apologies for the confusion then. I haven't read all the posts in this thread and must have glossed over the original post you were quoting.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by Trae713

If this is the case, then why do drivers spend more time stuck in traffic on DFW freeways than in Houston? Houston doesn't have areas that can be filled in too? How about all of that land along 288 inside the Beltway? Or how about NE Houston around the Beltway and Highway 90? DFW has more rail than Houston, but Houston has more buses and a better commuter system. Of course, the commuter buses only run at rush hour. Besides, DFW is more setup like LA traffic wise than Houston is. And I would say DFW has more freeways, but I'll give the secondary road nod to Houston.



It's the same thing in Houston. I live ITL and I don't have to go far for anything, especially with no zoning. And Arlington is definitely not central geographically. It may be central to Dallas and Fort Worth, but DFW pulls too far to the N for Arlington to truly be central. Not seeing how it helps with logistics either. We all saw how much it helped logistically during the Super Bowl. There isn't public transportation access to three of the four stadiums around DFW. Meanwhile, all four of the stadiums in Houston are connected by public transit (and all four by rail once its complete).

Here is the planning map for Harris County. The county needs to give enough room to make the roadway expansion easier and should add more right turn yields: http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/De...MTFP_Map12.pdf

Here it is Fairlady.

[marcopolo2000]

Originally Posted by BobTex

I hate these "Ford/Chevy" or "my dad can beat up your dad" wars here ... especially between DFW and Houston.

Having said that what is Dallas' plans for water in the future? They already have periodic water rationing even with the pipe line from Lake Fork. Doesn't that seem like a limiting factor?

At the same time, if Houston's plan to accomodate future growth is to basically add more superhighways and buses, then wouldn't air quality also be a limiting factor? Especially considering all of the refineries and chemical plants in the region.

Houston's lack of planning (interms of infrastructure) is well documented. I'm not sure why folks are acting brand new. Houston does a much better job than Dallas at planning and hosting big events (allstar, superbowl,etc) but when it comes to day to day planning and planning for the future, Dallas wins. I'm mean who really cares of all the stadiums are connected by rail if you still can't navigate MOST of the city?

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by marcopolo2000

At the same time, if Houston's plan to accomodate future growth is to basically add more superhighways and buses, then wouldn't air quality also be a limiting factor? Especially considering all of the refineries and chemical plants in the region.

Houston's lack of planning (interms of infrastructure) is well documented. I'm not sure why folks are acting brand new. Houston does a much better job than Dallas at planning and hosting big events (allstar, superbowl,etc) but when it comes to day to day planning and planning for the future, Dallas wins. I'm mean who really cares of all the stadiums are connected by rail if you still can't navigate MOST of the city?

BINGO!!

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by marcopolo2000

At the same time, if Houston's plan to accomodate future growth is to basically add more superhighways and buses, then wouldn't air quality also be a limiting factor? Especially considering all of the refineries and chemical plants in the region.

Houston's lack of planning (interms of infrastructure) is well documented. I'm not sure why folks are acting brand new. Houston does a much better job than Dallas at planning and hosting big events (allstar, superbowl,etc) but when it comes to day to day planning and planning for the future, Dallas wins. I'm mean who really cares of all the stadiums are connected by rail if you still can't navigate MOST of the city?

People in glass houses should not throw stones. According to the American Lung association both The Houston metro and DFW get an F when it comes to ozone pollution (you know the kind thats produced by suburban sprawl) Both areas get the same grade when it comes to short term particle pollution. And both pass when it comes to long term particle pollution.

Compare Your Air: State of the Air 2012 - American Lung Association

Game , set, match !

[jayshoota]

Originally Posted by R1070

Houston's traffic is even worse than Chicago and Atlanta!
Study: Atlanta, Chicago tie for 7th worst commute - Atlanta Business Chronicle

Also, yes Arlington is more centered than Dallas in the metro area. Having large sports venues there does make some sense.

And the core neighborhoods in Dallas are more compact and urban and cohesive than the ones surrounding downtown Houston. From my apartment in Oak Lawn I can easily walk to Uptown, Highland Park or Knox-Henderson as well as the things offered in Oak Lawn. There are advantages having such amenities centralized.

It's funny because in other Houston vs Dallas threads people on the Houston side argue that Dallas has too many gaps, too much open land, it's too rural and Houston is built out and more continuous growth, etc. But in this thread Houston is apparently better suited for growth. So which one is it? To me, DFW having all of this open land would obviously give it more room to grow and fill in as well as urbanize in the center cities. Expansion of rail and highways throughout DFW will only enhance this.

In Oaklawn, I have lived at 5225 Maple Ave and the Ilume. People did not and would not walk to Uptown, Highland Park or Knox-Henderson. I find it hard to grasp where you could live that would be within walking distance to all three of these neighborhoods.