Larry McMurtry ranks Texas cities: Houston, Austin, Ft Worth, & Dallas (Fort Worth: live in, shop)

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by justme02

Nah, Dallas is the least Texan city in Texas.

Houston may be more international than Dallas, but Houston is also more Texan/Southern than Dallas. Dallas is more American with a huge immigrant population than anything else. To clarify, I speak not of the topography but of the city and it's people.

I completely disagree. Houston is definitely more Southern than Dallas, but I don't see it as more Texan. The way I see it, the most un-Texan thing about Dallas is the fact that there's no HEB.

In my experience, I think there's a reason most Texans seem to have a preference for Dallas, while most southerners seem to prefer Houston.

[JJG]

Originally Posted by tofurkey

I think Nairobi must have been referring to the Hollywood version of Texas. History might show that the only 'city' that would be more Texan is San Antonio, and a close call at that.

History, maybe.

But there is one city keeping the "Texan" image alive more than any other...

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

I completely disagree. Houston is definitely more Southern than Dallas, but I don't see it as more Texan. The way I see it, the most un-Texan thing about Dallas is the fact that there's no HEB.

In my experience, I think there's a reason most Texans seem to have a preference for Dallas, while most southerners seem to prefer Houston.

There is very little about Dallas that is Texan except being next door to Fort Worth which is extremely Texan. Dallas could really be in any state from Iowa to the West Coast and not stand out too much. Thats why I say Dallas is the most American city in Texas. Houston is the most international and you will get no arguement from me there, but (thanks a huge part to the oil industry) it is extremely Texan. To this day, when I go to meetings in Houston Im the only one in a suit and tie and Im also the only one from Dallas. Houston is much more a boots and jeans kind of place. Houston IS the oil city and all that comes with it. Dallas is more of a financial city/tech city.

To expand on that, I live in Collin County. I cannot find one thing in the populated areas of the county that I would classify as Texan other than the occasional livestock grazing from people who never sold out to the commercial and residential development.

As an added disclaimer, I love all the cities in question. People say Dallas is trying to be LA, but its just being itself and it happens to not be a very Texan city so its easy to generalize. Its a fashionable, trendy, and very fun city. Houston is an oil town, a boom town, and an international town thats genuinely laid back. Fort Worth is the most Texan/Western of the bunch, but it wears its colors with pride and it wears those colors well.

[TXTwizter]

Who in the he!! is Larry McMurtry?

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by justme02

There is very little about Dallas that is Texan except being next door to Fort Worth which is extremely Texan. Dallas could really be in any state from Iowa to the West Coast and not stand out too much. Thats why I say Dallas is the most American city in Texas. Houston is the most international and you will get no arguement from me there, but (thanks a huge part to the oil industry) it is extremely Texan. To this day, when I go to meetings in Houston Im the only one in a suit and tie and Im also the only one from Dallas. Houston is much more a boots and jeans kind of place. Houston IS the oil city and all that comes with it. Dallas is more of a financial city/tech city.

To expand on that, I live in Collin County. I cannot find one thing in the populated areas of the county that I would classify as Texan other than the occasional livestock grazing from people who never sold out to the commercial and residential development.

As an added disclaimer, I love all the cities in question. People say Dallas is trying to be LA, but its just being itself and it happens to not be a very Texan city so its easy to generalize. Its a fashionable, trendy, and very fun city. Houston is an oil town, a boom town, and an international town thats genuinely laid back. Fort Worth is the most Texan/Western of the bunch, but it wears its colors with pride and it wears those colors well.

I feel the same way about Fort Bend County that you do about Collin.

According to your definition of "Texan", New Orleans is also more Texan than Dallas, by being a laid back oil town.

Maybe if I worked in oil (I'm assuming you do) or whatever profession you do, I might be inclined to feel the same way you do, but, as a native of the state, my perspective is simply different.

[Johnhw2]

I see things differently than many, I view Houston is more international and less southern than Dallas in terms of culture. Perhaps Houston looks more southern but its not in my experience. Dallas area has more southern drawls and yet it also has a more west Texas feel than Houston to me.

If lived in both Houston and Plano for some time. I prefer living in Plano because of the climate more than anything else. But Plano fits my needs better too in terms of finding the things I use around me without needing to venture into the city. I didnt find a place like that in Houston although the woodlands and the energy corridor come close other than the weather.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

I see things differently than many, I view Houston is more international and less southern than Dallas in terms of culture. Perhaps Houston looks more southern but its not in my experience. Dallas area has more southern drawls and yet it also has a more west Texas feel than Houston to me.

See, thats pretty much the opposite experience of my own (sans the Houston being more international part). Ive heard a lot more southern drawls and Texas accents in Houston than Dallas, though I admit Dallas' geography feels a lot more Texas Panhandle. I drove from Dallas to Grand Island, NE a year or so ago and I was amazed that the topography didnt change at all. But that is a part of my arguement that Dallas feels more "American" vs. "Texan".

Truly the only cities that I would say are purely Texan are Fort Worth and San Antonio. I do find Houston more Texan than Dallas, but I really dont find either city to be all that Texan. I dont find Dallas Texan hardly at all. I find it American and Great Plains(y) with a huge immigrant population.

Part of my experience is that I do a lot of work for oil companies and oil related businesses in Houston. There are a lot of roughnecks in that field. I dont say any of this to take away from Houston's diversity or international feel, its just my observation.

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by Komeht

"Larry" (as you call him) McMurtry has a Pulitzer for Lonesome Dove - probably the most well read and best loved western ever written. His films include The Last Picture Show, Hud (adapted from Horseman, Pass By), and Terms of Endearment. He is right up there with Cormac McCarthy of being the most well thought of Texas writers of his generation.

Brokeback Mountain did not "ruin his credibility" good sir.

The Pulitzer is a sham and has been for some time. And yes, BBM was the ruin to Larry's reputation. I laughed my way through Lonesome Dove so I could keep myself awake. Larry is a good story teller, but that does not make him a good author. If you take the time to read through the diaries of the period he writes about, some of which I have in my possession, they tell a different picture.

And if you grew up in and worked in and are related to the remnants of that culture, you would see a different picture. I have and still can roundup and push 5000 head by myself on horseback or foot. I've dogged tens of thousands of calves. I've killed many, many things. I have seen men die over silly accidents. Lonesome Dove is to literature what dude ranching is to real ranching.

I know people are fond of Lonesome Dove, but it has some serious flaws both as a retelling as as a serious work of art. It is not art by any stretch of the imagination.

As for BBM. I have worked with cowboys who were gay and I have relatives who grew up in that culture and are gay - and they HIDE IT - for the exact reasons I stated. Larry has not, and neither has Annie Proulx. Like I said, he is a schtick writer. And she is a New England Blue Blood. They desecrated something they did not respect and they trivialized some very tough decisions that others have abided by. BBM is not art, its a trick pony to make some New York intellectuals happy.

Cormac is on another level above Larry for many reasons. He and Elmer Kelton pretty much own their genres.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by TX75007

As for BBM. I have worked with cowboys who were gay and I have relatives who grew up in that culture and are gay - and they HIDE IT - for the exact reasons I stated. Larry has not, and neither has Annie Proulx. Like I said, he is a schtick writer. And she is a New England Blue Blood. They desecrated something they did not respect and they trivialized some very tough decisions that others have abided by. BBM is not art, its a trick pony to make some New York intellectuals happy.

Ok, but Brokeback Mountain was not based on a true story nor was it meant to be factual. It was a fictional story.

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by TX75007

.....

I know people are fond of Lonesome Dove, but it has some serious flaws both as a retelling as as a serious work of art. It is not art by any stretch of the imagination.

As for BBM. I have worked with cowboys who were gay and I have relatives who grew up in that culture and are gay - and they HIDE IT - for the exact reasons I stated. Larry has not, and neither has Annie Proulx. Like I said, he is a schtick writer. And she is a New England Blue Blood. They desecrated something they did not respect and they trivialized some very tough decisions that others have abided by. BBM is not art, its a trick pony to make some New York intellectuals happy.

Cormac is on another level above Larry for many reasons. He and Elmer Kelton pretty much own their genres.

Brokeback Mountain is something I would never have wasted my money on, ever. I couldn't even sit through the movie on standard cable TV--it was sick to the core, and so was AP, for having written the piece of trash.

McMurtry can be an entertaining writer, but that's the extent of it. He really can't compare to Cormac.

When I read No Country for Old Men, it was the first time I ever read something--and heard the conversation/running dialogue so clearly in my head at the same time.

Kelton? He has some excellent work out, such as The Time It Never Rained and The Good Old Boys, among a few others. I don't think anything else of his stands out like these two.