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Maybe you should reach out to them and show them how easy it is to live on the cheap out there.
Money is one of the reasons Africans Americans are leaving San Francisco and California, and culture is another, as one of the articles pretty much adresses. The West Coast has never been and never will be the mecca for black heritage that the South has always been. In conversations I've had with black Californians who have moved to Houston, several have expressed that they get a sense of home and acceptance here that they've hardly had before.
As wonderful as I know San Francisco is, studies are showing that it simply isn't all that nurturing to those who aren't white or the "model minority" Asian.
As for the OP, where exactly is all of this extra money I'm supposed to have saved by living in Houston?
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jek74
I hit my breaking point after one year in Brooklyn, just couldn't live like that. The "vibe" was not worth it.
That's the bottom line. Brooklyn wasn't worth it to you. I understand that. For some, what you describe would be a dream. They'd be in the city, near their chosen career. They'd have the freedom to walk the streets of NYC and meet people who could open doors for them. They'd have the universities and cultural institutions there from which to draw inspiration. If they worked hard enough and put their mind to it, AND it continued to be worth it to them, they could eventually make something of that.
I think we both are overly eager to one-up each other on this forum and we miss salient points on both sides. I understand what you are saying. I just don't agree with everything. I do respect your points, though, and am aware that my experiences may not reflect others'. That should go without saying, though.
For the record, I never claimed that I live cheaply in SF. I said that I can afford it. I pay an exorbitant amount to live here, but find that it's worth it.
Oh, and as for your aside on black people--you do understand that "San Francisco" is a part of the Bay Area akin to less than 1/2 the area of inner loop Houston, right? There aren't a whole lot of black people in the Western half of the Inner Loop of Houston, either. Just because city limits aren't drawn the same way between our two cities, doesn't change the fact that both areas are among the most diverse in the country and both also have areas that are highly segregated, for better or worse.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,132,725 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi
As wonderful as I know San Francisco is, studies are showing that it simply isn't all that nurturing to those who aren't white or the "model minority" Asian.
Any idea why money is the issue? It seems to cost just as much for white people and Asians to live in San Francisco. Parts of the East Bay seem to be a better fit for black people and many also seem to have a lot more money than I do, judging from their beautiful neighborhoods.
That's the bottom line. Brooklyn wasn't worth it to you. I understand that. For some, what you describe would be a dream. They'd be in the city, near their chosen career. They'd have the freedom to walk the streets of NYC and meet people who could open doors for them. They'd have the universities and cultural institutions there from which to draw inspiration. If they worked hard enough and put their mind to it, AND it continued to be worth it to them, they could eventually make something of that.
I think we both are overly eager to one-up each other on this forum and we miss salient points on both sides. I understand what you are saying. I just don't agree with everything. I do respect your points, though, and am aware that my experiences may not reflect others'. That should go without saying, though.
For the record, I never claimed that I live cheaply in SF. I said that I can afford it. I pay an exorbitant amount to live here, but find that it's worth it.
Oh, and as for your aside on black people--you do understand that "San Francisco" is a part of the Bay Area akin to less than 1/2 the area of inner loop Houston, right? There aren't a whole lot of black people in the Western half of the Inner Loop of Houston, either. Just because city limits aren't drawn the same way between our two cities, doesn't change the fact that both areas are among the most diverse in the country and both also have areas that are highly segregated, for better or worse.
Are you saying that are a lot of blacks in Marin county? LOL. Or the southern peninsula? No, they are in Oakland Dal, where there is "some" value.
I'm not trying to one up you and yes, I absolutely understand what you are saying. Sometimes you act like I live in the sticks The last three cities I have lived New York, Chicago and Houston are 3 of the 4 largest cities in the US. LOL.
Are you an only child? I only ask because only childs tend to always draw the conversation back to themselves a lot. It's a habit from their childhood where they are always the center of attention in the family. Dal, I believe you! Yes, I really do. I really believe you that "you" have made things work out there. I'm trying to focus on the median, not you personally.
And while it doesn't offend me that much (I'm not from here) it does probably offend others how you subtly insult Houstonians. I mean almost every remark about Houston is this back handed compliment where you cut them down by "understanding" them. It's pretty diverse here Dal as you know. And we have a lot of west coasters and east coasters moving in adding to that diversity. Not everyone in Houston has 6 kids and lives in a McMansion or even wants to. In fact, if we limit our comparison to the inner loop and SF city, as you correctly pointed out how small the city of SF is, the inner loop almost in no way resembles your description. You are describing suburbia. That would be like me using some far off burb to describe the avg SF person. Most of the inner loop does NOT live in a mcmansion (way too expensive), or have 6 kids, in fact, probably small % are families. And most are pretty cultured or try to be.
Dal I left NY because I got sick of the phoniness. The pretentiousness. The rat race. The stabbing your best bud in the back to get the promotion before him. The constant lying to get ahead. The phony friendships. Oh but hey, the culture is great! Yes, the culture in NY is great ironically because all of the things I just mentioned. I had a lot of friends who were writers, actors, producers, etc. And the funny thing is, all the things that make NY a miserable place to live was a great asset for creating art, for creating stories, plays, poems, art, film, etc. If everyone in NY was friendly, honest and caring there would not be much to write about.
Again, I'm talking about the avg person. Places like NY and SF tend to attract very neurotic people. FL as well. But hey, that makes a place interesting right.
Oh, and as for your aside on black people--you do understand that "San Francisco" is a part of the Bay Area akin to less than 1/2 the area of inner loop Houston, right? There aren't a whole lot of black people in the Western half of the Inner Loop of Houston, either. Just because city limits aren't drawn the same way between our two cities, doesn't change the fact that both areas are among the most diverse in the country and both also have areas that are highly segregated, for better or worse.
That's true, but I believe Houston's sprawl lends to much less exclusivity and perforated barries between neighborhoods. It's not at all unusual for someone who lives in Bellaire to be in regular contact with groups of black teenagers from Alief, when they're all in the Galleria or shopping at the same HEB. On the other hand, how much exposure does the typical Tenderloin resident have with someone who stays in East Oakland?
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi
That's true, but I believe Houston's sprawl lends to much less exclusivity and perforated barries between neighborhoods. It's not at all unusual for someone who lives in Bellaire to be in regular contact with groups of black teenagers from Alief, when they're all in the Galleria or shopping at the same HEB. On the other hand, how much exposure does the typical Tenderloin resident have with someone who stays in East Oakland?
You have a point there. When I first moved here, I lived in El Cerrito (more suburban sprawl East Bay) in a house share with five other people (big house, obviously). The neighborhood bordered Richmond, which is largely black and Hispanic. There was a pretty clear division between the largely white neighborhood, which was more in the hills and the more diverse neighborhood in the flats, near Richmond. Yet, in the commercial areas, everyone came together just fine and there seemed to be businesses that catered to all. Houston, without hills, bays or other means to divide neighborhoods tends to see them run more together in terms of residential areas, I suppose. I never found a place where the commercial area was quite as comfortably integrated, though.
El Cerrito was a very nice neighborhood--peaceful and diverse, with lots of shops and things to do. It's 25 minutes by BART from the financial district of San Francisco. 15 minutes to Oakland.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,132,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jek74
Are you saying that are a lot of blacks in Marin county? LOL. Or the southern peninsula? No, they are in Oakland Dal, where there is "some" value.
I'm not trying to one up you and yes, I absolutely understand what you are saying. Sometimes you act like I live in the sticks The last three cities I have lived New York, Chicago and Houston are 3 of the 4 largest cities in the US. LOL.
Are you an only child? I only ask because only childs tend to always draw the conversation back to themselves a lot. It's a habit from their childhood where they are always the center of attention in the family. Dal, I believe you! Yes, I really do. I really believe you that "you" have made things work out there. I'm trying to focus on the median, not you personally.
And while it doesn't offend me that much (I'm not from here) it does probably offend others how you subtly insult Houstonians. I mean almost every remark about Houston is this back handed compliment where you cut them down by "understanding" them. It's pretty diverse here Dal as you know. And we have a lot of west coasters and east coasters moving in adding to that diversity. Not everyone in Houston has 6 kids and lives in a McMansion or even wants to. In fact, if we limit our comparison to the inner loop and SF city, as you correctly pointed out how small the city of SF is, the inner loop almost in no way resembles your description. You are describing suburbia. That would be like me using some far off burb to describe the avg SF person. Most of the inner loop does NOT live in a mcmansion (way too expensive), or have 6 kids, in fact, probably small % are families. And most are pretty cultured or try to be.
Dal I left NY because I got sick of the phoniness. The pretentiousness. The rat race. The stabbing your best bud in the back to get the promotion before him. The constant lying to get ahead. The phony friendships. Oh but hey, the culture is great! Yes, the culture in NY is great ironically because all of the things I just mentioned. I had a lot of friends who were writers, actors, producers, etc. And the funny thing is, all the things that make NY a miserable place to live was a great asset for creating art, for creating stories, plays, poems, art, film, etc. If everyone in NY was friendly, honest and caring there would not be much to write about.
Again, I'm talking about the avg person. Places like NY and SF tend to attract very neurotic people. FL as well. But hey, that makes a place interesting right.
Nope, not an only child. I'm merely speaking from a position of experience, rather than trying to speak in broad generalities as you seem to value. I feel that If I can offer an example based on personal experience, it's probably more valuable than quoting a Forbes article written by someone who hasn't spent more than a few days in Houston and is trying to sell a writing gig or something like that.
My position on Houston is well documented. I'm not trying to insult the city, backhanded or otherwise. I see it for what it is, based on more than 20 years of living there, both inside and outside the Loop. I owned several properties there. I was part of the community. I still go back, as I have business interests there. I think mine is an informed opinion.
You, on the other hand, continue with the broad generalizations like "places like NY and SF tend to attract very neurotic people." yet you have never lived in SF and seem to know very little about it at all. You also admit to having spent one year in Brooklyn and claim to have the full run on New York, too.
Finally, I'm not clear what point you were trying to make about Inner Loop Houston. Compared to anywhere in the city of San Francisco, Inner Loop Houston would seem quite suburban. That is the crux of what I have said to you from the beginning. Downtown Houston, I will grant you, is a bit like South of Market here. But otherwise, there just isn't an analogue. I stand by my observations. No, I don't think you live in the sticks. You just seem to formulate some obtuse arguments as if you did.
Nope, not an only child. I'm merely speaking from a position of experience, rather than trying to speak in broad generalities as you seem to value. I feel that If I can offer an example based on personal experience, it's probably more valuable than quoting a Forbes article written by someone who hasn't spent more than a few days in Houston and is trying to sell a writing gig or something like that.
My position on Houston is well documented. I'm not trying to insult the city, backhanded or otherwise. I see it for what it is, based on more than 20 years of living there, both inside and outside the Loop. I owned several properties there. I was part of the community. I still go back, as I have business interests there. I think mine is an informed opinion.
You, on the other hand, continue with the broad generalizations like "places like NY and SF tend to attract very neurotic people." yet you have never lived in SF and seem to know very little about it at all. You also admit to having spent one year in Brooklyn and claim to have the full run on New York, too.
Finally, I'm not clear what point you were trying to make about Inner Loop Houston. Compared to anywhere in the city of San Francisco, Inner Loop Houston would seem quite suburban. That is the crux of what I have said to you from the beginning. Downtown Houston, I will grant you, is a bit like South of Market here. But otherwise, there just isn't an analogue. I stand by my observations. No, I don't think you live in the sticks. You just seem to formulate some obtuse arguments as if you did.
I lived in NY for two years. Please stop insulting me. It's rather childish. You are too old for that. I worked for a company based in SF and went out there every year for 8 years. Yeah, I know it pretty well. Not like the back of my hand, but enough to make comments about it. Let's put it this way, I've spent more time in SF then you've spent in the Woodlands yet you seem to be pretty opinionated about the Woodlands. My comment about the inner loop, since I have to walk you through it, is that is does NOT fit your description of Houston. The suburbs does. The inner loop is much younger, has far more apts and condos, more restaurants, the arts scene, bar scene, large parks, etc. Yes, there are residential areas that are insanely expensive and do NOT fit into either yours or my argument. And yes, SF and NY due tend to attract neurotic people. Just ask any writer who has ever lived in or written about either city. Dal, I don't mind attempting to have a civil dialogue with you here, but you can please effing cool it with the condescending attitude. It's making you look like a bigger prick then you probably really are. BTW, that was a back handed complement for you.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,132,725 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jek74
I lived in NY for two years. Please stop insulting me. It's rather childish. You are too old for that. I worked for a company based in SF and went out there every year for 8 years. Yeah, I know it pretty well. Not like the back of my hand, but enough to make comments about it. Let's put it this way, I've spent more time in SF then you've spent in the Woodlands yet you seem to be pretty opinionated about the Woodlands. My comment about the inner loop, since I have to walk you through it, is that is does NOT fit your description of Houston. The suburbs does. The inner loop is much younger, has far more apts and condos, more restaurants, the arts scene, bar scene, large parks, etc. Yes, there are residential areas that are insanely expensive and do NOT fit into either yours or my argument. And yes, SF and NY due tend to attract neurotic people. Just ask any writer who has ever lived in or written about either city. Dal, I don't mind attempting to have a civil dialogue with you here, but you can please effing cool it with the condescending attitude. It's making you look like a bigger prick then you probably really are. BTW, that was a back handed complement for you.
Well, I am reporting this. You're off the rails again. I didn't insult you. I think you are imbalanced.
BTW- I worked with the Woodlands Development Corporation for years doing their advertising and promotions. I know about The Woodlands.
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