UH vs UTD (Houston, Dallas: university, rankings, money)

[brianreading]

Originally Posted by peterlemonjello

I will say this, the student body of both schools is extremely diverse.

Yessir.

U.S. News and World Report

#2 University of Houston
#25 University of Texas at Dallas

Forbes

#2 University of Houston

[brianreading]

Okay, there's a lot to respond to here, so I hope you don't mind that I reformatted it some to make it simpler for everyone.

Originally Posted by jmbonly

Brianreading, I can see that your not going to go look at the information on the web, so here is all the information you were asking for:

I have zero problems with looking up information on the web, but how can I look up a ranking that I don't even have the name of? If you look back, you'll see that you were speaking in general terms "UTD is ranked higher than UH", and my question was ranked by who?

Originally Posted by jmbonly

University of Houston Information:

Official National Ranking Systems:

Again, there is no such thing as an "official" national ranking system.

Originally Posted by jmbonly

ARWU (National)---------------------------- 86–109 (Houston), 110-137 (UTD)
Forbes--------------------------- 344 (Houston), 367 (UTD)
U.S. News & World Report--------- 184 (Houston), 151 (UTD)
Washington Monthly--------------- 237 (Houston), 154 (UTD)
ARWU (Global)---------------------------- 201–300 (Houston), 301–400 (UTD)
QS------------------------------- 551–600 (Houston), Unranked (UTD)
Times---------------------------- 351–400 (Houston, UTD)

So, most of these rankings are pretty similar to each other. In some of these, Houston is ranked higher than UTD, and some of these UTD is ranked higher than Houston. My original point stands, there is no definitive claim that can be made as to which is higher ranked overall. It just depends on who you are consulting. This is where we can start looking at the legitimacy of methodologies.

Originally Posted by jmbonly

Kiplinger's------------------------- Unranked
Princeton Review------------------ The 377 Best Value schools (Houston, UTD),

Okay, these are not overall rankings. This just has to do with value. That is, the question of which university will cost relatively less to attend and still give good results. I addressed this in my last response to you. It's not meaningful overall. Also, the Princeton Review list is actually only 150 schools I believe.

Originally Posted by jmbonly

Engineering Ranking:
#76 (Houston, UTD) in Best Engineering Schools (Graduate)
#80 (Houston), #53 (UTD) in Computer Engineering
#89 (Houston), #60 (UTD) in Electrical / Electronic / Communications Engineering
#70 (Houston), #59 (UTD) in Materials Engineering

All of these rankings are based on the graduate programs, not undergraduate as we were talking about before. On a side note, seeing as how this is also coming from U.S. News and World Report, I find their methodology highly suspect. At the end of the day, I'm still awaiting this side-by-side comparison regarding overall or undergraduate programs at least.

Originally Posted by jmbonly

#96 in Undergraduate Engineering (UTD)
Top 100 in Undergraduate Engineering (Refuses to release actual number) (Houston)

I can see where you got the UTD figure, but can't find where the top 100 number for UH comes from. It seems that they will release actual numbers if you purchase them. Regardless, these numbers are flat-out illegitimate based on the methodology used. To quote U.S. News and World Report, the rankings "are based solely on the peer judgments of deans and senior faculty who rated each program they are familiar with on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished)." That's not a ranking system, that's a popularity contest.

[PISDstudent]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

Nonsense. Endowment per student doesn't mean much.

You kidding me? I just finished getting into/choosing a college, and how much a school is going to be able to spend on me is a huge issue.

Originally Posted by HtownLove

Rice had one of the highest endowment pet student in the country. I think it's higher than Harvard. Just because Rice per student endowment is that high didn't mean anything

LOL nope. Rice has the 12th highest endowment per student in the country. Harvard is number three (Princeton is first, and Yale number two). Rice is by no means the best school in the country, but it's a solid top 20 school, and the endowment per student definitely reflects that.

[jmbonly]

Brianreading, most specific undergraduate program rankings are based on graduates programs since most schools do not offer undergraduate research. For this reason, you will find that most (even Princeton review and Carnegie) base their rankings off graduate programs, SAT scores, Professors, degrees awarded, etc, but not undergraduate programs since they do not produce tangible research. Also, by the term "official", I am referring to respected rankings that professionals and schools consider legitimate. You may not like their methodology (which is not based off of opinions like you stated Frequently Asked Questions: Best Colleges Rankings - US News and World Report) but schools and professionals believe they are a good enough measure of a school to list them on their sites as well attempt to meet their standards.

As for an overall comparison, I agree that they are very similar in rankings but to say UH is better is a blatant attempt at city pride and, quite frankly, very reckless. As for engineering, it is painfully obvious which has a stronger engineering program. Even by research expenditures for engineering ($23 million uh, $42 million utd) UTD appears to obviously be a stronger engineering school. They are ranked top ten for computer science and game design as well. I posted very thorough statistics of both schools rankings in engineering. The top 100 in undergraduate engineering is listed here Points of Pride - University of Houston I've never stated the uh was a bad school. I am saying that, contrary to what many Houstonians believe, it is not a clear winner of being a better school and UTD appears to be an obviously choice of an better engineering school.

[brianreading]

Originally Posted by jmbonly

Brianreading, most specific undergraduate program rankings are based on graduates programs since most schools do not offer undergraduate research. For this reason, you will find that most (even Princeton review and Carnegie) base their rankings off graduate programs, SAT scores, Professors, degrees awarded, etc, but not undergraduate programs since they do not produce tangible research.

Flat-out nonsense. Rankings are produced based on undergraduate programs all the time. In fact, it's most of the time.

Originally Posted by jmbonly

Also, by the term "official", I am referring to respected rankings that professionals and schools consider legitimate. You may not like their methodology (which is not based off of opinions like you stated)

Then I guess there are no "official" rankings then. Secondly, U.S. News & World Report is a layman's ranking, and doesn't mean a whole lot to most schools in terms of measuring academics. As far as it not being based off of opinions, it's just false. Let me quote their methodology: "The U.S. News ranking formula gives significant weight to the opinions of those in a position to judge a school's undergraduate academic excellence."

Just how significant a weight are these opinions given? Almost a quarter (22.5%) is based solely on how school presidents rate other institutions. Now, do you think UT-Austin's president is more likely to rate UTD over UH? You bet he is. UT-Austin directly profits from the success of UTD due to being the flagship institution of the UT System. Does this seem highly political? Yes. Based off of legitimate objective academic observations? No. This is why I cannot give this methodology credibility.

Originally Posted by jmbonly

As for engineering, it is painfully obvious which has a stronger engineering program.

Still waiting on those side-by-side comparisons of undergraduate programs you couldn't provide. Keep your dreaming.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by brianreading

Flat-out nonsense. Rankings are produced based on undergraduate programs all the time. In fact, it's most of the time.



Then I guess there are no "official" rankings then. Secondly, U.S. News & World Report is a layman's ranking, and doesn't mean a whole lot to most schools in terms of measuring academics. As far as it not being based off of opinions, it's just false. Let me quote their methodology: "The U.S. News ranking formula gives significant weight to the opinions of those in a position to judge a school's undergraduate academic excellence."

Just how significant a weight are these opinions given? Almost a quarter (22.5%) is based solely on how school presidents rate other institutions. Now, do you think UT-Austin's president is more likely to rate UTD over UH? You bet he is. UT-Austin directly profits from the success of UTD due to being the flagship institution of the UT System. Does this seem highly political? Yes. Based off of legitimate objective academic observations? No. This is why I cannot give this methodology credibility.



Still waiting on those side-by-side comparisons of undergraduate programs you couldn't provide. Keep your dreaming.

Just EAT IT Houstonian....

[Mark Senior]

Just EAT IT Houstonian....

Yes, indeed. WE, should all end this thread with the above comment, showing the upmost CLASS possible.

[xsatyr]

Originally Posted by Mark Senior

Just EAT IT Houstonian....

Yes, indeed. WE, should all end this thread with the above comment, showing the upmost CLASS possible.

There is not much class when Dallasites and Houstonians get into a peeing race.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

Just EAT IT Houstonian....

meaning: Just accept it.

[brianreading]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

meaning: Just accept it.

Accept nonsense? No thanks. How 'bout y'all up there in Dallas quit making crap up, and then we won't call you out on it?