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And yet McDuff got three death sentences that were commuted to life and STILL got out to murder some more. That's why I say "guaranteed".
There is a difference between a life sentence and life without parole. Life sentences people can put in for parole after around 30 years. Strange how they word it, makes it confusing, but that's how government works I suppose.
And yet McDuff got three death sentences that were commuted to life and STILL got out to murder some more. That's why I say "guaranteed".
Exactly right, THL.
The details of the Kenneth McDuff case is beyond appalling. As some may recall, Texas Monthly Magazine -- some years back -- featured this guys picture on the magazine cover. And it -- naturally -- was the basis for the main story itself.
Below the picture of McDuff, on the cover was the overprint: MONSTER. God help the innocent young girl/woman who this "thing" picked out to fulfill his beyond sick compulsions. And there were several of them, each time he got out of prison.
The writer of the article (even though not one who seemed a total supporter of the death penalty), said something like "If there was ever a case for the death penalty, it would be Kenneth McDuff"
The state is not always correct and in some cases they are. Is collateral damage, being the loss of the true innocent victims ok, since, death is the greater cause?
You are right, Kathy, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one! And nothing wrong with that at all, Texas sis.
LOL damn straight.
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I am not sure what you mean by this. Of course we feel like the criminal deserves it, else we wouldn't support it.
Do we feel better about ourselves? Well, if you mean that capital punishment provides a catharsis of sorts? Then yeah, I agree we do. But what is wrong with that? I will just as easily counter with that many of those who oppose capital punishment do so because they feel better about themselves as well. It is kind of a standoff, I suppose, in terms of just who has the moral high-ground....
That's not what I said though - I said that most people I know who support the death penalty do so because it MAKES THEM FEEL BETTER. They like the idea of vengeance. "Good riddance - He deserves it." "I could pull the switch and then go eat a grand slam Denny's breakfast afterwards." "Let me do it." "Are they selling tickets?" That sort of thing. Even on this thread, I've seen glee expressed, a blood thirsty, vindictive streak. I'm not saying that everyone who supports capital punishment has this attitude, but there are plenty who do. The same folks who, three hundred years ago, would have attended public executions with morbid excitement, and who would have cheered the executioner on as the convicted were drawn and quartered. That attitude is still part of the human psyche and alive and well - and it's not one of our better traits.
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Kathy? I DO think about it, believe it or not. God will likely kick me and a bakers dozen of those like me, in the ass for things we have done in this life. Yikes! But seriously (although it is) Don't you think that most of us do consider such as that? I don't mean any disrespect (which I hope you would know anyway *smiles), but some of this comes across as a bit -- just a bit, mind you --as slightly didactic.
Sorry to bore you with my moral musings. Maybe I've led a more jaded life than you have, but it's been my experience that many people are pretty judgmental and judge others more harshly than they would judge themselves, and rarely stop to think about their own motives - especially in a large group where a herd mentality exists.
I'm not saying that YOU haven't thought about what you truly deserve in life, but do you seriously think that most people have? And do you seriously think that most people who would gather on Tower Hill to watch a public execution with glee, and throw a big party afterwards, have thought through the theological implications of vengeance and grace?
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Yes, it is entirely possible an innocent person could be executed. And I will even go so far as to say the law of averages might lend to that it has happened even in a modern day era. BUT, the innocent person should be named before stating with certainty is has happened.
Well, considering that since 1973, 130 people ON DEATH ROW have been exonerated and released due to DNA and other evidence, I'd say the odds are great that we've executed innocent people in the past, and may do so again in the future.
"I cannot support a system which, in its administration, has proven so fraught with error and has come so close to the ultimate nightmare, the state's taking of innocent life... Until I can be sure that everyone sentenced to death in Illinois is truly guilty, until I can be sure with moral certainty that no innocent man or woman is facing a lethal injection, no one will meet that fate."
--Governor George Ryan of Illinois, January 2000, in declaring a moratorium on executions in his state, after the 13th Illinois death row inmate had been released from prison due to wrongful conviction. In the same time period, 12 others had been executed. Death Penalty and Innocence | Amnesty International USA
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We definitely agree on that one. As I said earlier, I could be easily persuaded that such a sentence would actually be more in tune with "justice" (as I embrace it) than capital punishment. But the devil is in the details and the fact there is no guarantee is the glitch in the equation. It is a trade-off, and it will always be. However, as time goes on forensic science (especially DNA) is making it less and less likely that an innocent person will ever be executed.
When there are laws on the books that make DNA evidence REQUIRED prior to a death sentence, I'll take another look at the option. However, something that still would disturb me is the disparity in which the death sentence is given, regarding race/ethnicity and gender - of both the convicted person and the victims.
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With that said though, for those of us (if I may speak for some) who favor the death penalty? The most troubling thing is the thought of an innocent person being executed. There is no way I can disagree with that concern. On the flip side of the record? What about a Ted Bundy? What about a Kenneth McDuff? The numbers of innocent kids who died as a result of what those monsters did turns my stomach. I would consider it an honor to pull the switch on either of them.
Interesting.
The crimes of Ted Bundy, Kenneth McDuff, and for that matter Nidal Hassan disgust me and my heart breaks for their victims. This is why I believe that a very harsh sentence - life in prison without the possibility of parole - is merited.
Andrea Yates' murder of her five beautiful, innocent children sickens me as well. So does the case of the Hispanic woman who decapitated her children. Why aren't these women on death row?
Let's face it - anyone - ANYONE who murders children, or who is a serial killer, is insane. Deranged in fact. Mentally warped. Why are women rarely sent to death row? Why are the killers of white victims given the death sentence so much more often than the killers of minority victims? Why are some victims "more important" than others? Why are some brutal killers "less violent" or more sympathetic to us than others?
This is exactly why I don't like the death penalty - it's not that it's unjust, it's that it's use is capricious, emotion-driven, and often unfair.
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These days, I don't trust the government to do much of anything beyond exist and breed expotentially. If there is anything close to eternal life (as Reagan said) it is government! LOL
But seriously, IMO (and I know that amounts to about a penny in the pot! LOL) , the existence of capital punishment is not only sanctioned by the Bible, but is very much -- in macrocosm -- the overall moral justification for the principle of individual self-defense, itself. The difference is one protects the right of society to protect itself...the other protects the individual's right to do so.
The right of parents to stone their rebellious teenagers at the city gates is "sanctioned by the bible" too. As a Christian, I look to the New Testament for clarification on the concepts of judgment, vengeance and grace - the teachings of the most famous Convict of capital punishment.
And yet McDuff got three death sentences that were commuted to life and STILL got out to murder some more. That's why I say "guaranteed".
I agree that LIFE IN PRISON WITHOUT PAROLE should mean exactly that. Which is why I stated in my first post on this thread that that is the ONLY condition in which I find that sentence acceptable for a brutal killer. We really ought to be able to administer this punishment - it shouldn't be impossible to keep a person in prison for the rest of their lives. Honestly!
The only time I would think the death penalty is acceptable, would be in a scenario with irrefutable DNA evidence, and in a case where the motive is truly to protect the public (think Hannibal Lector) rather than "he deserves it."
The details of the Kenneth McDuff case is beyond appalling. As some may recall, Texas Monthly Magazine -- some years back -- featured this guys picture on the magazine cover. And it -- naturally -- was the basis for the main story itself.
Below the picture of McDuff, on the cover was the overprint: MONSTER. God help the innocent young girl/woman who this "thing" picked out to fulfill his beyond sick compulsions. And there were several of them, each time he got out of prison.
The writer of the article (even though not one who seemed a total supporter of the death penalty), said something like "If there was ever a case for the death penalty, it would be Kenneth McDuff"
I agree that he was a disgusting, dangerous, horrible person.
I wonder why on earth he was not locked away in prison FOREVER? I guess it was our failed judicial system - the same one we trust to administer the death penalty in a fair and judicious manner.
You know I love Texas, but Texas was the LAST state with the death penalty to approve LIFE WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE as an option for punishment. Which means that prior to 2005, our glorious state simply didn't have this option, which is one reason why McDuff managed to be released. RIDICULOUS and the state is at least as responsible for his subsequent murders as the man himself was.
His release was shameful, absolutely shameful, and the result of incompetence on the part of the state. Good grief, he had already murdered three people in cold blood!
Now that Texas offers the option of life in prison without parole, that sentence is becoming more common.
Does anyone have an example of a prisoner who was sentenced to life in prison without parole escaping or being released and killing someone else?
I agree that he was a disgusting, dangerous, horrible person.
I wonder why on earth he was not locked away in prison FOREVER? I guess it was our failed judicial system - the same one we trust to administer the death penalty in a fair and judicious manner.
You know I love Texas, but Texas was the LAST state with the death penalty to approve LIFE WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE as an option for punishment. Which means that prior to 2005, our glorious state simply didn't have this option, which is one reason why McDuff managed to be released. RIDICULOUS and the state is at least as responsible for his subsequent murders as the man himself was.
His release was shameful, absolutely shameful, and the result of incompetence on the part of the state. Good grief, he had already murdered three people in cold blood!
Now that Texas offers the option of life in prison without parole, that sentence is becoming more common.
Does anyone have an example of a prisoner who was sentenced to life in prison without parole escaping or being released and killing someone else?
I will NEVER understand everything that happened as far as McDuff went--ever. It's just so unbelievable.
Yes. Life in prison in Texas once meant 40 years, not a true life sentence. Someone could go in at 21 and be released after even the full term at 61 years.
And we were much later in adopting the "Life without parole" option. But I want it to mean exactly that--that he'll NEVER, EVER be considered for parole unless irrefutable DNA evidence indicates otherwise.
The DP, once carried out, is an ironclad guarantee that people like McDuff will never commit a crime again.
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