LGBT equality rankings for Texas cities (Houston, Dallas: best city, crimes, how much)

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

This thread sure got derailed fast! The OP started a thread asking why Houston specifically came in so low in the rankings, while other cities like Fort Worth were significantly higher.

I believe the OP, who now lives in Philly, formerly lived in Houston for many years. Thus, he has experience of Houston and found the rating surprising. I lived in Austin for many years and do not - happily - find the perfect score for that city to be surprising.

I don't think this thread calls for grandstanding about political or social ideology. It's just asking a question about the low rating Houston got for LGBT equality, versus other major Texas cities. I couldn't begin to give an informed opinion, never having lived in Houston and generally having avoided that overgrown monstrosity like the plague. I know a gay couple who live there (one used to live in Austin back in the day), and I would think they would be surprised as well that Houston ranked so low. The place has a big gay community, but of course that doesn't mean that it is better socially situated that the gay and lebian communities in Austin or any other particular city.

Thanks. You nailed it. The place to argue for or against LGBT rights is the Politics and Other Controversies forum.

I am really surpassed that a city that has three times elected Anise Parker as its mayor scores measurably lower than cites like San Antonio and Ft Worth which are considered to be more conservative. Has Mayor Parker simply not pushed for some of the items on the survey, such as non-discrimaintion laws, or has she tried and been overruled? Conversely, what do folks from San Antonio and Ft Worth have to say about why their politicians may enacted so many policies aimed at improving the lives of their LGBT citizens? I find the San Antonio and Houston comparison particularly interesting. Houstonians will contend that their sprawling city limits take in more conservative voters, which make passing such laws difficult. I understand that. But San Antonio is quite large and sprawly, as well, and it is not thought to be as progressive as Houston, so what's up with that?

[doctorjef]

In regard to Fort Worth, where I have lived - though it's a long time ago now - I'm going to venture that part of it is a rather laid back, unpretensious culture of the place. Dallas by contrast always seemed uptight, full of pretense and pseudo-sophistication, and VERY classist. I can't compare Fort Worth to Houston, however, due to limited knowledge of the latter. But I do think Fort Worth has a rather laissez faire culture, at least outside of the moralism of certain religious denominations (not pointing fingers here -- that includes a portion of my own Episcopal Church, part of which is unusually conservative and institutionally homophobic in Fort Worth).

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by Neo45

What issues? NOBODY HAS ISSUES WITH GAY PEOPLE. I'm starting to think the pc freaks WANT there to be drama so they can point their finger snd say how mean people are and that we need more laws now.

How on earth could anyone say that with a straight face???? Of course people have issues with gay people. Otherwise, they would have the same rights straight people have.

Originally Posted by BobTex

duh, ya think ???

You called them perverse in a deleted post. How can you agree with the statement "nobody has issues with gay people" when you, BobTex, clearly do?

[doctorjef]

Just a clarification on my earlier post about Fort Worth. In a word, what I really meant is that Fort Worth always seemed to me to have a more egalitarian culture than some other cities, notably Dallas. If people have egalitarian attitudes in general, it would seem logical that by extension they might be more inclined to treat LGBT people as equals, and such attitudes could operate in a variety of institutional and societal contexts.

The other thing that I remember is that there was some sort of scandel in the 1990s or thereabouts involving raids or harrassment of gay bars by the Fort Worth Police Dept. That may well have resulted in corrective measures that have contributed to the city becoming more gay-friendly at an institutional level. I lived in Fort Worth between 1976-1980 and again 1982-1984. At that time there was no police harrassment of gay bars that I know of, so the later problems seemed quite surprising and out of context, occurring at a time when societal attitudes were generally improving toward gay people. Perhaps the rogue police actions shocked the police department and city government into a reassessment and some attitudinal change, and that may have touched other non-governmental community institutions and private organisations as well.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

Just a clarification on my earlier post about Fort Worth. In a word, what I really meant is that Fort Worth always seemed to me to have a more egalitarian culture than some other cities, notably Dallas. If people have egalitarian attitudes in general, it would seem logical that by extension they might be more inclined to treat LGBT people as equals, and such attitudes could operate in a variety of institutional and societal contexts.

To be fair, Dallas does a really good job with LGBT equality. The gay culture here is very vibrant and alive. There are gay people in very high places in Dallas too. Because to be honest, while Fort Worth is more laid back than Dallas its also a lot more conservative. That is not my way of saying Fort Worth doesnt deserve its 91 ranking.

To be honest, Im surprised Fort Worth ranks higher than Dallas as well as Houston.

[doctorjef]

Well, Dallas has a lot more visible gay community, certainly, and always has had. Fort Worth is one of those places where the gay/lesbian community is more integrated into the general society. That's also true of Austin in a somewhat different way. Like Fort Worth, Austin has no distinct gay ghetto or gayborhood. That's different from both Dallas and Houston, each of which does have distinct gay areas. San Antonio, as far as I know, also doesn't have any distinct gay residential and business area(s).

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

Well, Dallas has a lot more visible gay community, certainly, and always has had. Fort Worth is one of those places where the gay/lesbian community is more integrated into the general society. That's also true of Austin in a somewhat different way. Like Fort Worth, Austin has no distinct gay ghetto or gayborhood. That's different from both Dallas and Houston, each of which does have distinct gay areas. San Antonio, as far as I know, also doesn't have any distinct gay residential and business area(s).

And the reason for that is that the gay community is much larger in Dallas and Houston than it is in Fort Worth, Austin, or San Antonio. Its the same reason African Americans are more integrated in Portland vs. say Los Angeles. There is just a lot more of them in LA that they can segregate.

[doctorjef]

Relative to the overall population, however, I'm not sure if that is true of Austin vs. Houston and Dallas. Houston should have the largest absolute number of gay people, but relative to its overall population size I think it's quite likely that Austin has a bigger gay and lesbian community. Wouldn't the size of the LGBT community relative to the overall population be more significant than absolute numbers?

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

Relative to the overall population, however, I'm not sure if that is true of Austin vs. Houston and Dallas. Houston should have the largest absolute number of gay people, but relative to its overall population size I think it's quite likely that Austin has a bigger gay and lesbian community. Wouldn't the size of the LGBT community relative to the overall population be more significant than absolute numbers?

When you throw concentration into the mix, this skews the data further in Dallas' favor.

Here are the concentrations and populations of gay people per city (not metro area):

Dallas: 7.0% - 58,473
Austin: 4.8% - 24,615
Houston: 4.4% - 61,976
San Antonio: 3.8% - 32,631

And now my metro area:

Austin: 5.9% - 61,732
DFW: - 4.5% - 183,718
Houston: 4.1% - 152,288
San Antonio: 3.5% - 46,188

http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.ed...S-Oct-2006.pdf

[doctorjef]

And of course one must make the point that those numbers represent self-identifying, out gay people. I just want to emphasise that the actual numbers and percentages in all cases are undoubtedly signficantly higher.