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Old 05-25-2023, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Houston, Tx.
869 posts, read 322,067 times
Reputation: 488

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romping Willy Billy View Post
I have tried fudging the numbers. Houston has a population that is a million more people. Even when Highland Park Village is subtracted because it isn't in Dallas, Dallas still compares with Houston. The two markets don't compare. Houston is much more of a minor market.


Lol, nice try...but I can turn that around on ya

Houston THE CITY has a million more people than Dallas the city....

But DFW has HALF A MILLION MORE people than Greater Houston...yet the GDP's of both areas are neck-and-neck. How can that be when DFW has 500k more bodies? I mean...you'd think a half million more people would really shoot that number up...yet it doesn't, lol.

Same with the shopping thing...Houston's Galleria BY ITSELF outshines both HPV AND Northpark mall....this is DESPITE DFW having far more luxury stores. Add ROD to the mix, and it makes your "minor market" shot look REALLY suspect.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
20,525 posts, read 33,605,086 times
Reputation: 12172
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallasboi View Post
[/b]

.....Compete with cars?!!!!!....We're not talking about the streets around the Houston Galleria.....Snap out of it!!!!!
I’m not going back and forth with the exclamation points and emojis like a 5 year old since I assume we are all grown adults here but my point stands. That google maps pic of HPV looks is woeful from an urban planner point of view. ROD isn’t great either from a urban perspective but it is significantly better than HPV.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
4,440 posts, read 6,321,722 times
Reputation: 3830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Because it is unwalkable. Anybody that has been to walkable places will tell you ROD performs better in this. ROD is a better shopping experience for pedestrians as you don't have to compete with vehicles going from store to store if one must do that.
I do t think this is an accurate assessment.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:45 AM
 
141 posts, read 46,410 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecitytx View Post
Lol, nice try...but I can turn that around on ya

Houston THE CITY has a million more people than Dallas the city....

But DFW has HALF A MILLION MORE people than Greater Houston...yet the GDP's of both areas are neck-and-neck. How can that be when DFW has 500k more bodies? I mean...you'd think a half million more people would really shoot that number up...yet it doesn't, lol.

Same with the shopping thing...Houston's Galleria BY ITSELF outshines both HPV AND Northpark mall....this is DESPITE DFW having far more luxury stores. Add ROD to the mix, and it makes your "minor market" shot look REALLY suspect.
Let's be real here. This feels like the mid-eighties argument that the city of Dallas was the oil capital of the world. Then almost every oil company upped and moved from Dallas to Houston.
Like Chicago has a Chicagoland area that is larger than its official metro area and includes Milwaukee, look at all those sizeable populations that feed into Dallas. Dallasland is just alot more substantial than Houstonland.
One example of this is the large population areas East along I-20 around Tyler, Longview, and stretching all the way to Shreveport.That is about a million people. Think they go to Atlanta to do their shopping? To the west along I-20 are the metro areas of Abilene, Midland, and Odyssa. Figure that total is about 700,000. I am certain that the people living in Lubbock don't travel to Denver to do their shopping. That is another half million. And then there is Oklahoma City and Tulsa.
Let's not forget the 7.1 million people in Houston.
There are over a million plus millionaires living in the five states surrounding DFW airport.
Again, I just don't see any comparisons between the retail markets of Dallas and Houston.
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Old 05-25-2023, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Houston, Tx.
869 posts, read 322,067 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romping Willy Billy View Post
Let's be real here. This feels like the mid-eighties argument that the city of Dallas was the oil capital of the world. Then almost every oil company upped and moved from Dallas to Houston.
Like Chicago has a Chicagoland area that is larger than its official metro area and includes Milwaukee, look at all those sizeable populations that feed into Dallas. Dallasland is just alot more substantial than Houstonland.
One example of this is the large population areas East along I-20 around Tyler, Longview, and stretching all the way to Shreveport.That is about a million people. Think they go to Atlanta to do their shopping? To the west along I-20 are the metro areas of Abilene, Midland, and Odyssa. Figure that total is about 700,000. I am certain that the people living in Lubbock don't travel to Denver to do their shopping. That is another half million. And then there is Oklahoma City and Tulsa.
Let's not forget the 7.1 million people in Houston.
There are over a million plus millionaires living in the five states surrounding DFW airport.
Again, I just don't see any comparisons between the retail markets of Dallas and Houston.

You're REALLY overselling it, my guy...

This is LUXURY shopping we're talking about...not your average run-of-the-mill couple looking for a cute outfit to wear to an event coming up. The demographic isn't THAT big, and I'd wager that the Houston market is every bit on Par with DFW's, despite the latter having more stores.

We're not talking about Ross or Kohl's...in which case, you would have a good point.
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Old 05-25-2023, 10:27 AM
 
141 posts, read 46,410 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecitytx View Post
You're REALLY overselling it, my guy...

This is LUXURY shopping we're talking about...not your average run-of-the-mill couple looking for a cute outfit to wear to an event coming up. The demographic isn't THAT big, and I'd wager that the Houston market is every bit on Par with DFW's, despite the latter having more stores.

We're not talking about Ross or Kohl's...in which case, you would have a good point.
But the original poster set a criteria which only includes luxury within the cities of Dallas and Houston. In other words, Plano alone has a Neiman Marcus and other luxury stores at the Shops of Willow Bend and Legacy West. Fort Worth has its own Neiman Marcus and luxury around it. The next city to watch that could get a Neiman Marcus would be South Lake.
Usually, having lots of luxury retail isn't a good thing as it is a sign that a city's homegrown retail got it's butt kicked. For example, Sakowitz in Houston and what is happening now to Neiman Marcus in Dallas.
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Old 05-25-2023, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
9,954 posts, read 6,666,570 times
Reputation: 6456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
I’m not going back and forth with the exclamation points and emojis like a 5 year old since I assume we are all grown adults here but my point stands. That google maps pic of HPV looks is woeful from an urban planner point of view. ROD isn’t great either from a urban perspective but it is significantly better than HPV.
I agree. It’s unfortunate that Buckhead Village ended up being by far the best of the 3 from a walkability and planning perspective. While not having nearly the same amount success
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Old 05-25-2023, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Houston, Tx.
869 posts, read 322,067 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romping Willy Billy View Post
But the original poster set a criteria which only includes luxury within the cities of Dallas and Houston. In other words, Plano alone has a Neiman Marcus and other luxury stores at the Shops of Willow Bend and Legacy West. Fort Worth has its own Neiman Marcus and luxury around it. The next city to watch that could get a Neiman Marcus would be South Lake.
Usually, having lots of luxury retail isn't a good thing as it is a sign that a city's homegrown retail got it's butt kicked. For example, Sakowitz in Houston and what is happening now to Neiman Marcus in Dallas.


Agreed, and which is why I say that this whole "bragging" thing that Dallas boosters are doing (well, only one booster in particular) about how many luxury stores DFW has might as well be an empty bag for all the good it does, since Houston is right on par (and even exceeds in some areas) with the Metroplex, despite having far less stores.

As an example, I'm nowhere near interested in shopping at any store that was named, and I highly doubt that most people on this forum are either...yet we're sitting here debating about which city has the most high-end stores that I'm willing to wager most of us can either not afford or have no interest in visiting, lol.

The same can be said of the vast majority of the population.
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Old 05-25-2023, 12:04 PM
 
5,673 posts, read 7,468,644 times
Reputation: 2740
spacecitytx.......... are you still talking?!!!!!....a day late and a dollar short...
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Old 05-25-2023, 01:29 PM
 
141 posts, read 46,410 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecitytx View Post
Agreed, and which is why I say that this whole "bragging" thing that Dallas boosters are doing (well, only one booster in particular) about how many luxury stores DFW has might as well be an empty bag for all the good it does, since Houston is right on par (and even exceeds in some areas) with the Metroplex, despite having far less stores.

As an example, I'm nowhere near interested in shopping at any store that was named, and I highly doubt that most people on this forum are either...yet we're sitting here debating about which city has the most high-end stores that I'm willing to wager most of us can either not afford or have no interest in visiting, lol.

The same can be said of the vast majority of the population.
There was a ferocious battle that took place in the eighties between the outside invading luxury stores that located in four malls in North Dallas and all the traditional stores wrapping around the Park Cities. It was a bloodbath. What one has to appreciate is how that area of North Dallas is supposed to be the number one retail shopping district in North Texas
In Dallas, it would be enough just having a Knox Street, but there is also Henderson Avenue. It should be enough having a string of regional stores located along the northside of Dallas and Tarrant counties, but there is also lots of regional stores locating to the south along I-20.
It isn't bragging if it is true.
I had a friend from Chicago pay a visit to Dallas. Showing him around, even he was amazed.
A shopping district which I've always liked in Houston is in Bellaire. It reminds me of Lakewood in Dallas how the streets of Bellaire and Bisonett cross and create a mix which isn't a square. However, just driving a few blocks will put one in the normal blight that is Houston retail.
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