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If anyone else on this forum has lived and worked - especially if they've owned their own business - in both Longview and Tyler, I'd love to hear your take on this. I have lived, worked, and owned my own business in both MSAs and to me, the differences are very striking.
Actually the Longview MSA is larger than that of Tyler (271,669 for Longview MSA vs 209,714 for Tyler MSA). Thus, the differences in infrastructure, economy, shopping, medical facilities, etc is even more striking.
This part caught my attention. Harrison County once was in Longview's Metro, but taken out and Rusk County added, according to the 2010 Census. The current showing data from Census Bureau as of July 11, 2013, newest figures,
Longview April 2010 214,369 July 1, 2013 216,350: Tyler 209,714, 216,080
This was to keep Dee from getting to excited how much larger Longview was. lol
Tyler metro is just Smith County which is fairly large in area
Longview has the very, small in area, Gregg Co, but much larger Usphur and Rusk Counties. There is is a certain percentage of citizens in one county 35%? who work/shop in a metro area before it can be added to that metro area. Tyler has many citizens, who work/shop from Cherokee, Rush, Wood, Henderson, but doesn't quite reach whatever mark there is, for those counties to be included in Tyler's metro
I had to post this before Dee had a chance to get real excited about how much larger Longview's metro was than Tyler.'s But maybe Dee wouldn't see? Dee never responded to my "update" of his comment "let me get this straight" Longview is a much larger shopping area, revenue, than Tyler, I quoted to him where the fugures that show Tyler ranges from 25-35% greater in Sales tax revenue than Longview. I may have not posted this at all if Dee hadn't been so proud of his opinion, or would I have posted it anyway?
Last edited by Mark Senior; 04-26-2014 at 12:02 PM..
Tyler, Texas - 60.5% White, 24.8% Black, 0.5% Native American, 1.9% Asian, 0.03% Pacific Islander, 10.3% from other races, 2% from two or more races, 21.2% Hispanic
Longview, Texas - 56.2% White, 22.6% Black, 0.5% Native American, 1.4% Asian, 9.5% from other races, 2.3% from two or more races, 18% Hispanic
Actually the Longview MSA is larger than that of Tyler (271,669 for Longview MSA vs 209,714 for Tyler MSA). Thus, the differences in infrastructure, economy, shopping, medical facilities, etc is even more striking.
This part caught my attention. Harrison County once was in Longview's Metro, but taken out and Rusk County added, according to the 2010 Census. The current showing data from Census Bureau as of July 11, 2013, newest figures,
Longview April 2010 214,369 July 1, 2013 216,350: Tyler 209,714, 216,080
This was to keep Dee from getting to excited how much larger Longview was. lol
Tyler metro is just Smith County which is fairly large in area
Longview has the very, small in area, Gregg Co, but much larger Usphur and Rusk Counties. There is is a certain percentage of citizens in one county 35%? who work/shop in a metro area before it can be added to that metro area. Tyler has many citizens, who work/shop from Cherokee, Rush, Wood, Henderson, but doesn't quite reach whatever mark there is, for those counties to be included in Tyler's metro
I had to post this before Dee had a chance to get real excited about how much larger Longview's metro was than Tyler.'s But maybe Dee wouldn't see? Dee never responded to my "update" of his comment "let me get this straight" Longview is a much larger shopping area, revenue, than Tyler, I quoted to him where the fugures that show Tyler ranges from 25-35% greater in Sales tax revenue than Longview. I may have not posted this at all if Dee hadn't been so proud of his opinion, or would I have posted it anyway?
You can't tell me nothing I don't already know thankyou!
I clarified in the above post that I was talking about the BUSINESS aspect of Tyler when I said "progressive." But now that you mention it, it's also more progressive when it comes to medical care, shopping, the arts, and dining.
With all due respect, I never said that Tyler and Longview are polar opposites. And I also clearly stated that I personally LIKE Longview. Having lived in both towns, I am giving my personal observations on the differences but of course there are also similarities.
Actually the Longview MSA is larger than that of Tyler (271,669 for Longview MSA vs 209,714 for Tyler MSA). Thus, the differences in infrastructure, economy, shopping, medical facilities, etc is even more striking.
Unemployment rate in Tyler is 6.3. It's 6.1 in Longview. Not a significant difference.
Comparing the top ten employers in both cities, it's immediately obvious that Tyler is more "white collar" and Longview is more "blue collar." This doesn't make Tyler "better than Longview" but it does make it DIFFERENT from Longview.
Tyler's Chamber of Commerce has 2100 members. Longview's has 1300. That's a significant difference and if you've ever been a member of both, as I have, the difference in the business climate is STRIKING.
Tyler's per capita income is $4000 more per year than Longview's.
Tyler's median home value is $8000 more than Longview's - and the cost of living in Tyler is higher than in Longview as well. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing - I'm just pointing out differences. When it comes to the "feel" of a city, this makes a big difference in two cities that are so close geographically.
There were over 600 home sales in Tyler the fourth quarter of 2013, compared with fewer than 200 in Longview.
21 percent of Longview residents have a bachelor's degree or higher, compared to 31 percent of Tyler residents.
13 percent of Tyler's residents have a professional or master's degree, compared with 6 percent of Longview residents.
Longview has a higher percentage per capita of registered sex offenders than Tyler.
Longview's murder rate is nearly three times higher than Tyler's but Tyler's rape rate is slightly higher than Longview's. Longview's robbery rate per capita is 159 while Tyler's is 92. Longview's burglary rate is higher, as is it's theft rate. It's AUTO THEFT rate is three times that of Tyler's. Overall, it's crime rate in general is much higher than Tyler's, or the national average. //www.city-data.com/city/Longview-Texas.html //www.city-data.com/city/Tyler-Texas.html
Colleges in Tyler:
Tyler Junior College Show location (Full-time enrollment: 6,186; Location: 1400 East Fifth Street; Public; Website: WWW.TJC.EDU)
The University of Texas at Tyler Show location (FT enrollment: 4,172; Location: 3900 University Blvd; Public; Website: What are you Looking For? Offers Doctor's degree)
Texas College Show location (FT enrollment: 934; Location: 2404 N. Grand Avenue; Private, not-for-profit; Website: Texas College | Give the People Light, and They will find Their Way)
Star College of Cosmetology 2 Show location (FT enrollment: 88; Location: 520 E Front St; Private, for-profit)
Colleges in Longview:
:
LeTourneau University Show location (Full-time enrollment: 3,187; Location: 2100 S Mobberly Ave; Private, not-for-profit; Website: www.letu.edu; Offers Master's degree)
There are about 730 students attending private high schools in Longview, compared to about 2500 in Tyler.
26 percent of voters voted for Obama in Tyler, vs 30 percent in Longview.
Both cities are about 50 percent Southern Baptist, but Longview has a much higher percentage of Church of Christ adherents, and Tyler has a much higher percentage of Catholics. Both cities have at least one mosque and at least one private Muslim school.
I thought this was sort of weird - Longview has twice the number of convenience stores per capita than Tyler.
Longview has a significantly higher rate of diabetes than Tyler. It also has a higher rate of adult obesity than Tyler. But Tyler has a higher low income preschool obesity rate, so go figure.
Though Longview is smaller in population than Tyler it has about sixty more government employees.
Tyler spends more per resident on highway construction. It spends less per person on police protection but has a lower crime rate.
Tyler has a much higher percentage of sales tax revenue per capita than Longview (Tyler - $306 per capita vs Longview at $269 per capita). This means simply that more sales happen per capita in Tyler than in Longview - a more dynamic retail market.
However, Longview's property taxes are higher per capita than Tyler's. Public utilities and licensing fees cost more per capita in Longview than in Tyler as well. These stats negatively affect the business community and business growth there compared to Tyler.
The City of Longview also has a higher long term debt per capita than Tyler.
Longview has a higher "move out" rate than Tyler does. In fact, that's one reason why Longview's rate of growth is slower than Tyler's - it's "move out rate" is nearly identical to it's "move in" rate - 9 percent. Tyler's "move out" rate is 7 percent but it's "move in" rate is 8 percent. In fact, Longview's move out rate is higher than the state average, while Tyler's is lower than the state average.
Longview has more reported fires even though it has a smaller population.
In fact, Longview made the City Data's Top 100 list of the most unsafe cities. Tyler did not.
In the Month of March 2014, there were 183 building permits issued in Longview, compared to 423 in Tyler. Censtats Databases
As clarified earlier, I was speaking from a business perspective.
I've lived all over the world, and traveled extensively. Both Tyler and Longview are about 50 percent Southern Baptist. However, Tyler has a very active interfaith community, which I have yet to see in Longview. Tyler's Protestant, Catholic, Jewish and Muslim communities make a concerted effort to meet together and work together ecumenically.
Longview does have a Race Relations group but just from my personal perspective, I don't see diversity celebrated or encouraged in the Longview area nearly as much as I see it in the Tyler area, especially in the business community. Now, this is just my personal perspective, but since our family is very diverse racially as well as culturally, I am very "tuned in" to "diversity vibes" for lack of a better term.
You do know that even in Tyler, the Rose Festival thing is laughable, right? I am serious - if those ridiculous Rose Festival participants knew how much fun Tylerites make of them, they'd be embarrassed to show their faces. They're a laughing stock and they don't even realize it! It's sort of pathetic, actually.
Well, both cities have their positives and negatives, but Tyler is DEFINITELY the more polished and cosmopolitan of the two. Longview is definitely more laid back and casual.
Well you know I never owned my own business in Longview or Tyler I just grew up in between Longview and Marshall and spent summers and many days in all 3 cities for most of my live till I moved out of East Texas. So you have me beat in that category. If you don't mind me asking what type of business did you own in Longview? I know plenty of business owners in Tyler and Longview and business is good for either city depending on what your business is about and how you promote and conduct your business.
As far as progression in shopping,dinning, arts and medical care. I'll give you medical care and shopping but then again to me like I said Tyler is a bigger city so they have a little more then Longview. I wouldn't really call all that more progressive just because you have more.
All i'm saying is your shortchanging Longview while at the same time over exaggerating Tyler STRIKINGLY progression as a WORLD CLASS MINI City. Like you mention Longview MSA vs. Tyler MSA.
What you fail to mention is that, that 271,669 accounts for Longview-Marshall combined statistical area. Yet you didn't do the same for Tyler-Jacksonville combined statistical area which sits at 253,138 as of 2009.
So you see how you skew the facts to give Tyler this huge favorable bump that it frankly doesn't have that much over Longview.
As far as the members of Chamber of Commerce you fail to mention is that the Longview chamber of commerce is one of the top 10 chambers of the state of Texas. But also again Tyler is a bigger city so I would expect them to have more. I'm pretty sure both have a respectable size for a cities it's size could always be more progressive on both behalves I assume.
I just don't understand how Longview could get so much good press when it comes to Forbes and other publications on business yet it's a STRIKING difference in attitudes of business between the 2 cities yet Tyler lacks behind Longview on these list focusing on businesses.
As far as race relations between Longview and Tyler they're about the same in my experiences. You still have civil war Reenactments in Smith County. I mean it is the city of Robert E. Lee Highschool after all. And i'm not saying one is over the other i'm just stating as far as race relations go they're about the same. It's no significance difference AT ALL. Me being black I would encounter subtle racism in Longview as I did in Tyler. I associated with many different nationalities in Longview just like one could in Tyler. The fact that Longview has had a multicultural festival going on close to 8 years now speaks volumes about progression in race relations in East Texas. I know some of the people on the committee and was shocked when I found out they were putting this together.
And Tyler just started a multicultural ARTS festival after Longview multicultural festival. Longview's multicultural festival covers a little more ground then just art.
As far as the Rose festival being the laughing stock it's still a big deal in the city and in East Texas. I remember watching it on tv and seeing alot of Tylerites lining up at the parades.
And I won't disagree with you on crime being higher in Longview then Tyler. Longview really needs to work on it's crime issues. It's somewhat alarming considering the size of the city. Also Tyler is more polished no denying that. Longview has made major steps towards beautifying the city and it's paying off. Still Tyler has done it for the longest so they have every East Texas city beat in that regards.
Also I wouldn't consider cosmopolitan and East Texas in the same city. Not even for Tyler, I guess it would be more cosmopolitan then Longview yes very cute of Tyler.
And as far as the comparison of Dallas and Ft.Worth. Dallas and Ft.Worth would laugh at that let's stop the comparisons of major U.S. cities to small respectable cities. That's a big blow to Longview. If you wanted to make a more realistic comparison to Tyler and Longview it would be a The Woodlands is Tyler and Sugar Land is Longview or Katy or WHATEVER. Dallas and Ft. Worth are worlds apart and respectable in they're own rights. The suburbs of DFW and Houston while different are not worlds apart from each other and that's where Tyler and Longview would stand against one another. And of course Longview and Tyler have a much stronger identity then alot of suburbs filled with soulless subdivisions and cookie cutter downtowns and strips(no offense and minus the Woodlands). But cut it out
Houston,Dallas,Austin are true cosmopolitan cities of Texas and even people in more densly populated areas have a problem calling these sunbelt cities cosmopolitan. I wouldn't associate Tyler or Longview as cosmo which is nothing wrong with that.
I reached that conclusion based on living in both areas. Basically when I say "progressive" I mean it in the business sense. It is MUCH more difficult to do business in Longview than it is in Tyler. The city/government entities are more at odds rather than cooperative in Longview - whereas in Tyler they cooperate. This makes a huge difference in the business environment.
Ok...I interpreted your previous comment about general attitude and mindset to be a reference to Tyler's social climate, not business climate. Thanks for clarifying.
I've actually lived and done work in both Tyler and Longview too, but not directly in the business sector, so I can't speak to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
There are clubs in the Tyler area which have "gay night" by the way. Not that I care one way or the other.
There are? Outlaws used to have one, but I thought they closed down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
If there's a market for a gay club, then someone should open one.
I've heard that the very same politically powerful and influential religious organization you mention in your quote below is responsible for keeping alternative nightlife out of Tyler. Not sure if it's true, but it's what I've heard from a born-and-raised Tylerite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
I have little patience with the "Green Acres Baptist Church" mentality one runs into on occasion in Tyler but overall, the city of Tyler is much more cosmopolitan than Longview. Longview is a "rougher" environment - less genteel, less polished. I'm not saying that's a bad thing - in some cases it's good. I actually like both small cities. It's just a matter of preference. Like someone else said, Tyler is "Dallas," and Longview is "Fort Worth."
I agree that the cities give off a different vibe. I would describe Longview as more laid-back and certainly less image-conscious and flashy than Tyler, which I actually find refreshing. Rich folks in Longview show up to work in jeans and a t-shirt, and drive pick-up trucks. Rich folks in Tyler get dressed up to go to Brookshire's and drive luxury vehicles. And that's not objectively a bad thing; it is what it is and subject to personal preference.
In terms of infrastructure and amenities, the differences between the two cities aren't that striking, in my opinion. Typically, the only time I hear people in Longview talk about going to Tyler is if they have family there or season passes to the zoo.
Last edited by tExPatriot; 04-26-2014 at 10:37 PM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dee936
I can name a couple as well Belks,Kmart,Fallas outlet and that was in a NYC sec lmao so what was your point and yes Lufkin is 33.67 but with Hudson,Burke and Diboll being connect to the city and Tyler not having one city connected to it 55sq mi compared to 60 sq mi is a big difference give a fact that you know.
Tyler just got a Popeyes and went crazy on citydata about it.Nacogodoches and Lufkin have had popeyes locations since the 80's lol klmao again klmao.Tyler is the only city you didn't name that is not connect to every major hub now thats a bigbut any.You making references sound ridiculous lol because not talking citys that are connect to most but ones that are not cough cough Tyler lol
You guys have it pretty good. I live in a city that's about 49 square miles. We have only two highway connections with any larger city. Our azalea trail is an embarrassment. There are no other towns in my whole county. None. There is also no Dillard's, K-mart or Fallas Outlet. We do have Popeyes and a couple of Macy's, though.
You can't tell me nothing I don't already know thankyou!
Not from your post about retain sales, where you said "now get me straight on this, Tyler retain sales are nowhere close to the total for Longview." Well you now acknowledge you read the correction I've posted twice, just for you. Just trying to get you, always, not just when it's convenient from your "point of view," to just use only facts. Thanks Dee
If anyone else on this forum has lived and worked - especially if they've owned their own business - in both Longview and Tyler, I'd love to hear your take on this. I have lived, worked, and owned my own business in both MSAs and to me, the differences are very striking.
hmmmmm so much for the striking differences in business. I just don't understand why all these publications and media outlets keep praising business in Longview if it's so non progressive compared to Tyler?
"All on the heels of a big year for Longview as it eclipse Tyler as the East Texas metro with the highest per capita household income"
@1:32
Wow did I hear that right in the video? Is that true Kathryn? Maybe the booming economy and growth sprout(the News words not mine) has something to do with Longview's Matthew Mcconaughey(his years in Uvalde mean nothing he still got ties to the View) winning an Oscar. WHO KNOWS???
hmmmmm so much for the striking differences in business. I just don't understand why all these publications and media outlets keep praising business in Longview if it's so non progressive compared to Tyler?
"All on the heels of a big year for Longview as it eclipse Tyler as the East Texas metro with the highest per capita household income"
@1:32
Wow did I hear that right in the video? Is that true Kathryn? Maybe the booming economy and growth sprout(the News words not mine) has something to do with Longview's Matthew Mcconaughey(his years in Uvalde mean nothing he still got ties to the View) winning an Oscar. WHO KNOWS???
All I can tell you is that the empty storefronts in Longview tell a different story. Things open...and then close. The number of empty stores and commercial buildings or lots for sale in Longview is genuinely distressing.
According to this site, Longview's per capita income is slightly higher than Tyler's (about $500 difference). I guess they're just not spending that money in Longview. BEA : Metropolitan Statistical Area BEARFACTS
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but any.You making references sound ridiculous lol because not talking citys that are connect to most but ones that are not cough cough Tyler lol
