Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My niece in law is transgender, came out about three years ago. Not frivolous, not wishy-washy, not mentally ill. A lovely, lovely person. She is such a good person, in fact, that her long time girlfriend - since before beginning her transition - who is as normal and mainstream as Apple pie, is staying with her even though she's completely different in some ways now.
We are already terrified she's going to be killed. She lives in a small conservative town. If she had to use the male bathroom, she would be in grave danger. She does other human beings absolutely no harm whatsoever.
But boy, the abuse she puts up with would make a less strong person cry for their mother.
The fact that there's a small counter culture that has fun with gender doesn't change the fact that there are, and always have been, hard-core transgenders who are simply wired differently and risk their lives to be who they are because it means that much to them. They aren't doing it on a whim.
Meanwhile, in places where it's illegal to prevent people from using the bathroom of their choice based on gender identity, there has been very little, and for the main part no, increase in or even any extra crimes committed in women's bathrooms. Some of these laws have on the books for 10 years or more.
I know that this is a personal issue to you as it is to many who know trans-people personally or are trans themselves, but the issue still remains as to radically changing policy to fit the narrative of something that isn't conclusive science. The trans-theorists have put forth a lot of contradictory theories about transgenderism and the science is at best questionable. At the same time people don't like to be emotionally blackmailed such as being told that not giving in will result in more harm to trans people. It's not to be callous against your niece in law, but that there isn't anything that can back up the claims the theorists put forth, so why should society uproot everything it's ever known and also change it's laws on segregating bathrooms by sex for all this? It doesn't make sense. No matter what trans-people will use the bathroom of their choice, and there are single stall bathrooms in most shopping centers.
I know that this is a personal issue to you as it is to many who know trans-people personally or are trans themselves, but the issue still remains as to radically changing policy to fit the narrative of something that isn't conclusive science. The trans-theorists have put forth a lot of contradictory theories about transgenderism and the science is at best questionable. At the same time people don't like to be emotionally blackmailed such as being told that not giving in will result in more harm to trans people. It's not to be callous against your niece in law, but that there isn't anything that can back up the claims the theorists put forth, so why should society uproot everything it's ever known and also change it's laws on segregating bathrooms by sex for all this? It doesn't make sense. No matter what trans-people will use the bathroom of their choice, and there are single stall bathrooms in most shopping centers.
My niece in law is transgender, came out about three years ago. Not frivolous, not wishy-washy, not mentally ill. A lovely, lovely person. She is such a good person, in fact, that her long time girlfriend - since before beginning her transition - who is as normal and mainstream as Apple pie, is staying with her even though she's completely different in some ways now.
We are already terrified she's going to be killed. She lives in a small conservative town. If she had to use the male bathroom, she would be in grave danger. She does other human beings absolutely no harm whatsoever.
But boy, the abuse she puts up with would make a less strong person cry for their mother.
The fact that there's a small counter culture that has fun with gender doesn't change the fact that there are, and always have been, hard-core transgenders who are simply wired differently and risk their lives to be who they are because it means that much to them. They aren't doing it on a whim.
Meanwhile, in places where it's illegal to prevent people from using the bathroom of their choice based on gender identity, there has been very little, and for the main part no, increase in or even any extra crimes committed in women's bathrooms. Some of these laws have on the books for 10 years or more.
I don't have a problem with your niece one way or the other. Adults can make their own choices with their own bodies and as long as they don't ask me to subsidize those choices they can have at it.
My issue is with the pseudo science and the strong arming from the federal government (and entities like the NFL) trying to force people to subsidize something that simply doesn't have a strong scientific basis. How does this differ from demanding that creationism is taught in schools?
I don't have a problem with your niece one way or the other. Adults can make their own choices with their own bodies and as long as they don't ask me to subsidize those choices they can have at it.
My issue is with the pseudo science and the strong arming from the federal government (and entities like the NFL) trying to force people to subsidize something that simply doesn't have a strong scientific basis. How does this differ from demanding that creationism is taught in schools?
You could almost find more of a constructive debate between creationism/intelligent design because there is a semblance of scientific aptitude from the former, but the transgender theorists are steeped in post-modern jargon, trying to convince people biological sex is a social construct.
the bigger concern for me is the progressive want to provide protection via discrimination laws for such a very minute % of our population = when this door is opened the progressives will use this issue for more insane protective issues - history clearly shows they chip away piece by piece year by year - our 2nd amendment rights is a clear example of this how they just take a piece here - piece there
providing protective class status for trans will in power the progressives more and more- just look at liberal states like Calif - Wash Ny etc - and you read hear all the time how did this to that happen - well people one piece at a time -
just look the austin forum - read the posts - clearly texans born here or moved here are complaining more and more about crime, dirt, trash, drug addicts, driving, etc- permits for this or that,
Look at the counties and cities editorials about the state trying to hold property tax increase to 5% from 8% you think the world is going to stop - because liberals leaders want you to pay more and more without a vote
look how they seek around using the bonds - for the children line every time there is a election -
this is not about toilets and who's hung or not it about liberals seeking up on you
I don't have a problem with your niece one way or the other. Adults can make their own choices with their own bodies and as long as they don't ask me to subsidize those choices they can have at it.
My issue is with the pseudo science and the strong arming from the federal government (and entities like the NFL) trying to force people to subsidize something that simply doesn't have a strong scientific basis. How does this differ from demanding that creationism is taught in schools?
Transgender people exist, always have, always will, whether we understand why they're transgender or not. It's not a belief. Many cultures have long recognized a third gender as a fact.
We don't know why gay people are gay either. Science is fluid. Just because we don't have the answers now doesn't mean we won't. But even if we don't, gays and transgenders will still be gay and transgender. It only matters to appease the skeptics, and to dispel the idea that it's some type of character flaw, or moral failing.
The pseudo, actual, or any other kind of science is irrelevant to the reality that the people exist as they are and are one of the last groups whom it is still quite socially acceptable to be outright hostile to. If a person is labeled a freak and dehumianized, it's much easier for others to assault and otherwise make their lives hell.
Sometimes the government needs to step in to protect minorities or accommodate the unpopular, until the rest of society catches up.
You could almost find more of a constructive debate between creationism/intelligent design because there is a semblance of scientific aptitude from the former, but the transgender theorists are steeped in post-modern jargon, trying to convince people biological sex is a social construct.
My niece just wants to be able to use the woman's bathroom, because if she goes into the men's, she takes a serious risk of being assaulted.
That's not a theory, nor a social construct.
Neither is she, for that matter. She's just a person.
govt has no business in protecting the rights of 0.01% of the population because a bunch of progressive say it is so. you failure to recognize the majority has rights too and i am concerned that you would allow the govt to protect this class when the numbers dont come close to to any other protected class - you are like so many here that think govt needs to protect all for any reason - when in fact we should take care of ourselves - giving the govt more power over our lives and using such a dumb arcane issue as trans rights just empowers them more - it rents want rights - then they need to use their voice in the lgbt community and elect officials that feel the same way - until then defend the power of the vote -and majority rule -
My niece just wants to be able to use the woman's bathroom, because if she goes into the men's, she takes a serious risk of being assaulted.
That's not a theory, nor a social construct.
Neither is she, for that matter. She's just a person.
By niece do you mean your nephew is transitioning from male to female? Yes I get it transpeople exist, but virtue of existing it doesn't mean the rest of the population should rearrange society for them. It also doesn't prove the theories her community puts forth about who they are or want the world to see them as. Again this notion that if we don't give in to this that more harm will come to transpeople is emotional blackmail.
Transgender people exist, always have, always will, whether we understand why they're transgender or not. It's not a belief. Many cultures have long recognized a third gender as a fact.
We don't know why gay people are gay either. Science is fluid. Just because we don't have the answers now doesn't mean we won't. But even if we don't, gays and transgenders will still be gay and transgender. It only matters to appease the skeptics, and to dispel the idea that it's some type of character flaw, or moral failing.
The pseudo, actual, or any other kind of science is irrelevant to the reality that the people exist as they are and are one of the last groups whom it is still quite socially acceptable to be outright hostile to. If a person is labeled a freak and dehumianized, it's much easier for others to assault and otherwise make their lives hell.
Sometimes the government needs to step in to protect minorities or accommodate the unpopular, until the rest of society catches up.
Don't transpeople want to be referred to the opposite gender of their choice, not be considered a third gender? So does it matter if other cultures have had an erroneous belief for many ages? There are only two biological sexes and two genders are socially constructed from those two sexes. Anything else from that is not something rooted in science. You may dismiss that because trans people exist and have existed since time immemorial but did it ever occur to you that it could be a disorder? We've already went through this but what do you call someone who firmly believes they're something they're not when all evidence physical, biological, physiological etc points to the contrary? I actually think enabling that delusion dehumanizes them. There's no reason why society should be held captive so that a few could live out that delusion. And if we don't have a full understanding of it as you say then why uproot society? You think it's just about letting transpeople use the bathroom but it's also about rewriting fundamentals. Their community can't even keep their narratives straight but they want to rewrite policy? Telling people that if they don't comply or don't accept the narrative then they're contributing to the violence against trans people is beyond the pale.
This also isn't about needing to protect a certain group because the law already protects them. Any harm that befalls a trans person is illegal. No one wishes them harm and if they do they have a screw lose.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
