How soon will the export of illegals impact wider swath of Texans? (buy, wages)

[DanielWayne]

so calling people insane is appropriate? and you still won't say you support illegals over legal tax paying citizens- typical leftist response when you have no facts to stand on

debate is healthy and if you are going to support any opinion it must be made on facts - again your emotions clearly shows you have nothing to stand on --

Yes many of us support the wall = many want to deport the criminals - many of us want a substantial number of illegals to leave so we can have more jobs, higher wages - many want our hard earned tax dollars to go to legal citizens - many of us do not want out of control taxes- many of us dont want to have another Calif state- you do not have one retort to any of these issues other than insane belief that your life will be over - yes the argument is over - you lost

Yeah but more people -don't- support a wall. They support sensible immigration reform over xenophobic hysteria. They support penalizing employers who create the incentive for a lot of people to illegally cross in the first place. I seriously doubt the wall (at least the one proposed by the president) would go over well in Texas, where the state is soon to be majority Hispanic (as in a decade or so). Remember Texas was once part of Mexico. I would hope most people are aware of that. And if you distance Mexico and continue to rattle Mexico's cage with nationalistic threats and bombastic trade policies, you are also going to rattle a lot of the population of Texas as well.

I see I posted just seconds after tcualum, and I fully agree with his/her post.

[ikoolu]

sensible immigration includes limiting the number of illegals coming into out country - so you see you agree Message:
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with me - but the immigration must be legal

as far a majority of the state going to Hispanic what does that have to do with illegal immigration? - texas territory was part of spain till 1821 when the mexicans took possession of the territory - 15 years later texas became the republic of texas and only 9 years later joined the united states so if you would bother to check your facts Spain ruled the territory for most of the time and mexico only had possession for 15 years that does not make it mexican -

so you are incorrect and trying to change history - clearly you are biased and have to tell haft truths to make your point -

[testmo]

Mexican illegal immigration is down, central american is up. They are fleeing guerrilla civil war. I imagine they will still be trying to go somewhere to escape as i would in their shoes.

Before central america went crazy and mexico was improving- the first significant recent drop in illegals - states with an agricultural economy had real issue in harvest due to loss of labor. Whole bumper crops from longer grow seasons rotted on plants. Its a fact, americans are not going to join in large numbers to be migrant field hands for minimum wage. In an agricultural economy this very well can be doom and gloom. If mass deportations happen food stuffs most definitely will rise from produce, meats to dairy. I think its also obvious the affect it would have on commercial and residential construction. We are still living through a worker shortage although this has been improving for the past few years

Depending on the family SES, you could very well imagine some families being deported but leaving their US citizen children here due to better quality of life and possibility of living with a citizen family member or getting lucky in foster care. The TX foster care system already has children of deported parents, so id imagine its easy to foresee these numbers increasing

Even worse though is just diplomatic ties. Mexico actually produces a lot of exports the manufacturing, aerospace, construction and automotive industry in the US depends on. In some cases they are the sole providers of industrial goods. Add onto that he amount of kitch and clothing imported from mexico. Mexico has already hinted at retaliating gainst unfair treatment by the US and looking to the EU to export. The EU in turn hinted at welcoming this. Should this happen, and americans get hit in the face in the matter of weeks with price jumps in cars, electronics, clothes, food things are going to boil.

Imagine your basic truck or sedan in weeks jumping in price from the dealer to 70,000 or more. And used parts, new parts being unavailable or extremely costly while the US retunes plants or has to build new ones to fill the need themself. Tack on time for training and staffing these plants.

Americans have lived in a cheap goods country for almost forever. Its my belief this country wont function civilly if prices for goods jump to be unaffordable for 60-80% of americans. Im referring to basic small new cars being 55-60k, used cars in the tens of thousands, parts being unavailable, adjustable rate car leases instantly jumping in price, some food crops just not existing in the US market, ham steaks being 10-12 dollars on sale, apples being 3-4$ a piece etc. Id expect these prices to last indefinitly or at least 3 yrs until america retooled their economy to oddly forcus on more low tech and agriculture which basically will be the death blow to the country

[joqua]

This tidbit has been making the email rounds for the past year:

This is really sad!
TRUMP IS ALREADY DESTROYING THE ECONOMY

Illegal immigrants are boycotting USA businesses by the thousands and moving
elsewhere, showing their outrage with Donald Trump's proposed law of
sending illegal immigrants back to their native countries.

Manuel Renaldo is one of those who are vowing to punish Americans by leaving. As he loaded
his stolen car with his taxpayer-furnished belongings and family of ten,
Renaldo told this reporter through an interpreter:

"It's a matter of principle; I refuse to be supported by a state that treats me like a criminal!"

The effects of the exodus are already being felt by some retailers,
who are reporting dwindling thefts and fewer sales of beer, tequila, spray paint, and ammunition.
Also hit hard are the state hospitals, which have reported a dramatic decline in births
and emergency room visits of non-revenue patients! State welfare agencies are preparing
to lay off staff that distribute food stampsand unemployment benefits.

Tattoo parlors are in an absolute state of panic!

Renaldo told a reporter, through an interpreter, that he and his family are moving
to Canada, with a new Liberal government under Justin Trudeau with new, higher
taxes, and hardworking people who will better support him and his family with dignity!

Kinda brings a tear to your eye, doesn't it?

[loves2read]

[quote=ikoolu;47314385]sensible immigration includes limiting the number of illegals coming into out country - so you see you agree Message:
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with me - but the immigration must be legal

as far a majority of the state going to Hispanic what does that have to do with illegal immigration? - texas territory was part of spain till 1821 when the mexicans took possession of the territory - 15 years later texas became the republic of texas and only 9 years later joined the united states so if you would bother to check your facts Spain ruled the territory for most of the time and mexico only had possession for 15 years that does not make it mexican -

so you are incorrect and trying to change history - clearly you are biased and have to tell haft truths to make your point -

If you knew history, you would know that most od the inhabitants of Mexico were just that--generations who were Mexican descendants of the original Spanish settlers who had married into native population to certain extent but rarely were direct immigrants from Spain...

Whether Mexico was an independent nation or a Spanish colony...the great majority of people living there were born THERE not in Spain and from what I have read were considered a second class citizen just as the American colonists of GB who were born in the Colonies but technically citizens of Britian were considered second class and had no vote in British Parliment...which led to the Revolution in the Colonies and basically led to the Mexican Revolution from Spain...

Borders were extremely fluid in the past...

There was a time in Texas when legal citizens, born in Texas but of Hispanic ancestry, were forcibly evicted from their country--the US--because of xenophobic action in Washington and Austin...
The Texas Rangers were involved in throwing out thousands w/o making any effort to determine legal status...
Basically it was a big land grab in South Texas...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Repatriation

Similar to what happened when the Japanese Americans on west coast were sent to camps and had their homes and business taken over by the government w/o fair compensation--fair compensation they NEVER received...


Re legal vs illegal immigration
I am not saying the government doesn't have a right to deport people who are here illegally...
But the methods and intent behind it are often counter productive to the ends they say they want to achieve...
Steve Bannon and Jeff Sessions and Steven Miller have all come out in the past and said that there are frankly too many LEGAL immigrants even...
They basically want to close the border to ANY immigration and hope to supposedly have a period of assimilation where these immigrants lose their home-country culture/values/language and become more "American"...

The point that companies who facilitate hiring illegal immigrants are as much to blame as the illegals themselves is extremely valid...and there is very little dome by Govt to punish them because it is so easy for them to claim ignorance...even when they know they are using illegals...
and don't forget that thousands and thousands of those illegals using false SS numbers pay into SS and Medicare and income tax system and likely NEVER will see a payout...
since they can't get a SS pension or Medicare which require proof of citizenship--not just a SS number...
So that is an income source for the federal Govt and states that have income taxes...
Maybe some of them (illegal/undocumented) do get an income tax refund...can't speak to that...

I think this entire immigration/deportation push is part and parcel of Trump's and Bannon's use of xenophobia to create fear in their base...against Hispanics in the main although other groups like Asians certainly have large numbers of illegal/undocumented people in the US...
They tie this to the fear of Muslim terrorists slipping through the cracks and generate a paranoia and hatred of those who are "different"---but what they are different from is white, Anglo-Saxon America...

Ask Trump if he is giving up using his H2b visa workers at MarALago and other resorts and hiring Americans...
I bet not...

Muhammad Ali Jr was coming into Ft. Lauderdale airport from Jamaica earlier this week...
It is his home airport, flies in and out of ther numerous times a year for various reasons...
He and his mother were stopped by Customs and Borders this time and questioned...
His mom had a photo of herself w/her husband Muhammed Ali, the fighter and political activist. She was released fairly quickly. Her son, who,had only his father's name--no photo w/him--was kept for TWO hours, questioned as to,how he got his name, if he was a Muslim (which he admitted he was/is), and other bull---t questions...basically two hours of harassment by CBI agents with too much time on their hands and a desire to bully...
Because CBI is not subject to local police authority, his mom could not get anyone at the airport to intervene or even tell her what was going on...and face it...she is an older lady and likely was very frightened about what happened...
Once he was released with no real explanation or apology, they went home and called theor attorney the next day....
I know CBI does that a lot to American citizens who are not white-bread...
We have friends of SE Asian and Persian heritage --born in the US--or naturalized citizens-- who get stopped and basically harassed when they travel.
they aren't on any terrorist watch list...have nothing to do with anything illegal...
That is just an abuse of power by CBI...
When agents of YOUR government break the law we all are ruled by then really none of us are safe...

[ikoolu]

boo hoo hoo someone had their id checked - get used to it

and again you are wrong Spain controlled the mexico for hundreds of years and your so called mexicans are actually decadents of mynas

your wrong - we all know it - your side lost and is losing more every day - but keep responding with your lies and untruths i gives me many hours of laughter

[lonestar2007]

Originally Posted by rynetwo

Loves2read does not deal in facts or reality. Just close this trash thread.

Oh man, you couldn't possibly be more right in your assessment.

loves2read, you certainly have all the answers, don't you? Well, with the exception of "Maybe some of them (illegal/undocumented) do get an income tax refund...can't speak to that...". Whaat? You saying you're going to let one drop of water go unanswered? Gee, that's not like you.

Your comment "They basically want to close the border to ANY immigration and hope to supposedly have a period of assimilation where these immigrants lose their home-country culture/values/language and become more "American"..." is self explanatory as to how your mind views the entire immigration process in our country.

As to your overly used argument " thousands and thousands of those illegals using false SS numbers pay into SS and Medicare and income tax system and likely NEVER will see a payout..." - "So that is an income source for the federal Govt and states that have income taxes...", it's basically a moot point. This income source is a drop in the bucket to the millions the federal government and states pay out to offset the expense that results from the illegal immigrants. Closer to home look at the extra money poured into the school systems to accommodate these children. This raises our taxes (even with all your illegal immigrant money from fake SS's going into the system) and yet here we are with an entirely inadequate education system on the whole.

As to your trying to make it appear like it is some sort of tragedy a person is detained and questioned before entering the country (even though they are citizens returning home from a trip) you are really scrambling to find substance for your lame agenda to promote and protect illegal immigration.

I find it incredible that in light of all that is actively going on with the illegal immigration people still insist on doing things that they should very well know will result in some actions being taken to insure all is on the up and up. Everyone leaving the USA at this time and planning to return should have sense enough to know what will be required of them to re-enter the country. If they don't, I'd venture to say they are pretty damn dumb. That or they are intentionally wanting a conflict in order to make a statement. I will add that yes, it can be an inconvenience, but not one that can't be coped with and at this point, it is an inconvenience that we all are facing for the trade-off of added security for our country. So, loves2read, you can quake in your boots all day long with imaginary fears, I know I won't be.

Another thing here is you want to come across as the white knight in shining armor. Your sympathies for the poor illegal immigrant (who in your eyes is only poor Pedro who has sneaked in across the southern border to pick your tomatoes, mow your lawn, wash your dirty dishes at your favorite restaurant), your heartfelt concern for your friends of SE Asian and Persian heritage, your sob breaking story about Muhammad Ali Jr and his mother, is nothing more than you wanting to make yourself appear to others as a champion for the underdogs. Yet your husband is a landman and you seemed quite proud of that fact (dear Lord, don''t ask me why) when at one time you just felt the need to inform all of us about it. lol It is so laughable to hear you (of all people) condemn big government and it's bullying of poor illegals immigrants. Why don't we just start a thread regarding the tens of thousands of horrifying cases of landmen vs property owner? Oh, you want to argue that is something completely different? You cite abuse of power and how obnoxious and terrifying you find it. Why do you not find abuse of power appalling, terrifying when it is used in any format? Why condemn one and condone the other? So hypocritical. You do remember what they say about glass houses, don't you?

OMG I was about to post this and almost forgot . . here I was, about to leave out one of the biggest highlights of your post - "I know CBI does that a lot to American citizens who are not white-bread..." lol I have to admit it, you do have a way with words. "White-bread" LMAO I've got to remember this one.

[ikoolu]

perfectly said

[Tokinouta]

Originally Posted by cBach

Not slavery but cheap labor. If someone is willing to come into a country and take cheap paying jobs because it is better than in their home country, then I don't see why there would be any moral concerns about that. But once that family comes into this country and is working hard, I do take issues with the parents and children being separated. That just ain't right, and you know it.

Do you know why it's cheap?

Surprisingly it's not because they are willing and happy to take cheap jobs.

It's because they can only get jobs through an organizer who works for these companies and gathers up illegals for them. That person usually speaks English and Spanish. They act as the middle man, take large cuts of the slaves money and threaten deportation if they ask questions. They often stay here and then after they see how crappy it is they go home.

It's a revolving door. They aren't happy, they are stuck here. They thought it was the land of opportunity but then they realized you need to enter legally to obtain that. So, it's slave labor, and believe me, they are treated as such. The women are raped, and the men are worked so hard the labor boards mouths would be hanging open. It's time we stop enabling this.

Why on earth would you want to be apart of this practice? Does it make you feel better off or something?

[cBach]

Originally Posted by Tokinouta

Why on earth would you want to be apart of this practice? Does it make you feel better off or something?

So tearing families apart is the solution? Why would you want to be part of that? Does it make you feel better off or something?