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That's your view. My view is that a significant number of immigrants that had either taken advantage of the laws as they existed from 1821-1830, or crossed into Texas illegally decided to fight a war that was inevitable once Mexico allowed Americans to immigrate to Texas in the first place. Anglo Texans didn't assimilate, didn't want to speak Spanish, didn't want to be a part of Mexico, and always largely saw Texas' future as an Anglo state. Most, if not all, swore allegiance to Mexico only to break it by going to war against them.
So you may see it as some dredging up of history but I don't see it that way. I simply see the situation today as the same situation that existed in Texas from 1830-1834, except nearly 200 years later and with the US and Mexico's roles reversed. I'm simply calling out the hypocrisy in holding a position vehemently opposing it when many native (Anglo) Texans can trace their presence in the state to so-called "illegal" immigration.
Anyone has the right to hold a hypocritical view, but it should be called out as such.
Which is all spurious because you can't argue that in any State house to change the law or make that your case when you're caught for unlawful presence. It's just a way to divert attention from the fact that people are subverting current existing laws.
Which is all spurious because you can't argue that in any State house to change the law or make that your case when you're caught for unlawful presence. It's just a way to divert attention from the fact that people are subverting current existing laws.
You make it sound like illegal immigration is a black and white issue. It isnt.
What do you do about the people brought here as children and havent even been back to their country of birth? Send them back? What good does that do society? So the right can score a victory?
Also, Americans are incredibly ignorant on the plights many are facing around the world. Many people in places like Syria, Honduras, and Venezuela have a choice: leave or die. Now a typical arrogant American who has no clue will say "they should stay and fight and take their country back". Its that type of arrogance and ignorance that has made us so infamous. They cant fight back. In places like Syria, its their own government thats killing them. In Honduras, the gang problem is so bad that terrorism is the norm and the government is corrupt. In places like Venezuela, many people literally have no food.
So if you come from a place like that, do you just stay and die? Or would you fight like hell for a better life somewhere else? The answer most would say is "come legally". Well, that is very expensive and time consuming. Time and money are two things these people dont have.
You can say "well they are breaking the law by being here", well you break the law every time you go 75 miles an hour on 610. You can say "thats not the same thing" and youd be right. Your life doesnt depend on going 75 miles an hour on 610, for people from places like Syria, Honduras, and Venezuela, in many cases, their life does depend on getting out at all costs.
Yes, if you bothered to read my post your distinction is exactly why I responded. People such as yourself keep downplaying the criminality of illegal aliens as simply being "petty." I find it disingenuous the way you guys overlook the fact that 75% percent of illegal aliens are committing a crime by doing one of the following; possession of fake drivers license, phony green cards, fraudulent birth certificates, and including falsifying on the I-9 under penalty of perjury. That's only half of it too. All of this is swept under the rug as "petty" to you in order to use the argument that enforcing the existing laws it will make it more difficult for law enforcement to do their job because illegal aliens will be more reluctant to rat on other illegal alien criminals committing far worse crimes. They've always had a reason to fear the police. Enforcing the federal laws of the land doesn't give them any less of an excuse.
Your excuse is as bad as the one about all the white collar crime being committed by illegals as somehow justified because despite the fraud, they're still paying taxes! LOL.
Going on about law enforcement not being able to do their job properly is just another excuse by proponents of illegal immigration to underplay the fact that regardless of how law abiding they are in terms of violent crime (which is also a myth) their mere presence here in the country is unlawful. This is something you can never get around no matter how many excuses you come with it.
At the end of the day, it's about how people feel sorry for the situation illegal aliens have put themselves in and do not wish for existing laws to be enforced.
As said by Tarrant County, a conservative county, this law doesn't change much when it comes to deporting undocumented immigrants. All it does is put fear in them and forces counties to spend money on holding people a lot longer than usual for the types of crimes they committed. You act as if people who commit these crimes usually sit in jail. A lot of them bail out rather quickly. Only a very small percentage of law enforcement agencies in Texas were not complying with all ICE detainers, which was legal. The previous administration deported people at a higher rate than what's being done currently.
This law allows the option of asking for documents, but does not require it. In practice, hardly anyone is going to be detained simply for being here and working here illegally. This bill is a waste of paper, and they're already wasting more taxpayer dollars by taking this to court preemptively to prove that it's constitutional.
As said by Tarrant County, a conservative county, this law doesn't change much when it comes to deporting undocumented immigrants. All it does is put fear in them and forces counties to spend money on holding people a lot longer than usual for the types of crimes they committed. You act as if people who commit these crimes usually sit in jail. A lot of them bail out rather quickly. Only a very small percentage of law enforcement agencies in Texas were not complying with all ICE detainers, which was legal. The previous administration deported people at a higher rate than what's being done currently.
This law allows the option of asking for documents, but does not require it. In practice, hardly anyone is going to be detained simply for being here and working here illegally. This bill is a waste of paper, and they're already wasting more taxpayer dollars by taking this to court preemptively to prove that it's constitutional.
My argument wasn't about this particular law actually making a huge impact on deporting illegal aliens (not undocumented immigrants, it's such a buzzword), even though I think it's a step in the right direction. My point was that people such as yourself downplay the actual level of crime these people commit and refer to it as "petty" when you know it's not. You guys say that to downplay one set of a crime to play up another; violent crime. In one swoop you divert attention away from the former to get people to focus on the latter to get illegal aliens off the hook. Yet, they have always had a reason to fear the law enforcement agencies, the fact that they didn't before and that you're arguing that they will says a lot about our current enforcement of our border laws.
The crux of the matter is why you insist on thinking that what they're doing is "petty" and that any amount of help the state can give ICE in order to enforce current existing laws is a waste of paper? Just be open about your opinions concerning illegal aliens and our border laws. What should be done about the illegal alien problem? Or that is if you even think there is a problem?
Last edited by radiolibre99; 05-09-2017 at 05:13 PM..
You make it sound like illegal immigration is a black and white issue. It isnt.
What do you do about the people brought here as children and havent even been back to their country of birth? Send them back? What good does that do society? So the right can score a victory?
Also, Americans are incredibly ignorant on the plights many are facing around the world. Many people in places like Syria, Honduras, and Venezuela have a choice: leave or die. Now a typical arrogant American who has no clue will say "they should stay and fight and take their country back". Its that type of arrogance and ignorance that has made us so infamous. They cant fight back. In places like Syria, its their own government thats killing them. In Honduras, the gang problem is so bad that terrorism is the norm and the government is corrupt. In places like Venezuela, many people literally have no food.
So if you come from a place like that, do you just stay and die? Or would you fight like hell for a better life somewhere else? The answer most would say is "come legally". Well, that is very expensive and time consuming. Time and money are two things these people dont have.
You can say "well they are breaking the law by being here", well you break the law every time you go 75 miles an hour on 610. You can say "thats not the same thing" and youd be right. Your life doesnt depend on going 75 miles an hour on 610, for people from places like Syria, Honduras, and Venezuela, in many cases, their life does depend on getting out at all costs.
As far as the law goes it is black and white, and that is why it pisses the heck out of some of you when anyone proposes that the law on the books be enforced. On your first point, we have natives and citizens with families who break the law all the time and are separated from their families. It's the same thing. An illegal alien knew what they were doing and the risks they were engaging in when coming here illegally or over staying their visa. It carries a potential penalty of up to six months imprisonment and or deportation if a criminal violation and deportation if a civil violation. If there is any fudging of legal documents that's another crime. So stop with the emotional blackmail about separating families. Families are separated all the time when a family member commits a crime. You guys just feel really, really bad for illegal aliens and it's understandable, it is a harsh situation which is why it's recommended that you put in the time and money to immigrate LEGALLY.
We cannot take in the whole world, man. And that last paragraph was just laughable. Utterly awful logic.
My argument wasn't about this particular law actually making a huge impact on deporting illegal aliens (not undocumented immigrants, it's such a buzzword), even though I think it's a step in the right direction. My point was that people such as yourself downplay the actual level of crime these people commit and refer to it as "petty" when you know it's not. You guys say that to downplay one set of a crime to play up another; violent crime. In one swoop you divert attention away from the former to get people to focus on the latter to get illegal aliens off the hook. Yet, they have always had a reason to fear the law enforcement agencies, the fact that they didn't before and that you're arguing that they will says a lot about our current enforcement of our border laws.
The crux of the matter is why you insist on thinking that what they're doing is "petty" and that any amount of help the state can give ICE in order to enforce current existing laws is a waste of paper? Just be open about your opinions concerning illegal aliens and our border laws. What should be done about the illegal alien problem? Or that is if you even think there is a problem?
Actually, I lean slightly to the right when it comes to immigration. Just because I oppose a stupid bill that many law enforcement organizations oppose for a reason does not mean that I do not think that illegal immigration is a problem. Trying to dismiss the opinions of criminal justice professionals, who deal with these things a lot more than you do, by labeling them as liberal is rather lazy.
In comparison to violent crimes, these crimes are petty. People usually do less than a couple of years for these crimes in the lowest security prisons. Many times, they get off with fines and probation. Also, these crimes you are talking about are crimes that local law enforcement agencies rarely focus on enforcing. These laws are mostly enforced by federal law enforcement agencies. No matter how you try to twist it, most people are more concerned about violent crimes and serious property crimes than people working here illegally.
What should be done about the undocumented immigrant problem? Stopping people from coming in should be the focus, but not the way it's being proposed now. There is no way we're going to deport 11 million people. This administration is not even going to get close to getting it done unless they resort to drastic measures that violate human rights. There is no way to deport millions of people humanely in a few years.
The law is a waste of paper because it doesn't really do anything, except make it more difficult for law enforcement agencies to investigate crimes and make it less likely that people will report crimes. If the state was serious about aiding the federal government, then they would provide funding to local law enforcement agencies to do the job that federal law enforcement agencies are supposed to be doing.
Once again the attention is diverted and these crimes downgraded to being merely petty. The victims of identity theft don't find it petty. The more you guys come up with excuses for the criminality of illegal aliens the more you make a mockery of existing laws. No wonder they don't respect the border laws. So we have to not help ICE do their job because illegals are less reluctant to talk to local law enforcement? More so than they should already be weary for being illegal?
This is just getting ridiculous. Deporting people because they're in the county illegally is not a human rights violation. It isn't about deporting all of them in four years but setting a precedent to enforce the existing laws on the books. I like the idea about funding local law enforcement to do tackle some of the stuff federal agencies should be doing. Good point.
I find it disingenuous for you to say people don't care about illegals working here illegally. They most certainly do.
That's your view. My view is that a significant number of immigrants that had either taken advantage of the laws as they existed from 1821-1830, or crossed into Texas illegally decided to fight a war that was inevitable once Mexico allowed Americans to immigrate to Texas in the first place. Anglo Texans didn't assimilate, didn't want to speak Spanish, didn't want to be a part of Mexico, and always largely saw Texas' future as an Anglo state. Most, if not all, swore allegiance to Mexico only to break it by going to war against them.
So you may see it as some dredging up of history but I don't see it that way. I simply see the situation today as the same situation that existed in Texas from 1830-1834, except nearly 200 years later and with the US and Mexico's roles reversed. I'm simply calling out the hypocrisy in holding a position vehemently opposing it when many native (Anglo) Texans can trace their presence in the state to so-called "illegal" immigration.
Anyone has the right to hold a hypocritical view, but it should be called out as such.
I'm thinking you are feeling mighty smug and self-righteous after setting the rest of us straight. You overlook the fact that life is full of hypocrisy and in just about every aspect you can name and certainly not contained to TX or even the US, but worldwide.
You can see the situation today as the same one almost 200 years ago with the only difference being the roles reversed, but what is being discussed here is not yesterday's problems and solutions, it is today's and that is because today's illegal immigrant problem in the US needs some workable solutions. I'm surprised you didn't mange to insert slavery into your historic hypocrisy comparison.
Also, Americans are incredibly ignorant on the plights many are facing around the world.
This is such an incredibly naive statement. Americans are drowning in current events. Our lives are filled with electronic devices keeping us informed every second of the day of events happening worldwide.
So, it is not that we Americans don't know what it going on in the rest of the world, nor is it that we don't care because we do. But we also know we simply cannot police the rest (speaking broadly) of the world. America is very generous in so many ways in it's dealings with the rest of the world, but surely you have to realize America cannot wave a magic wand and make all the wrongs in the world go away. To say Americans are ignorant on the plights of others is downright pompous on your part. We are aware and it's not that we don't care or too involved living our blessed, self absorbed indulgent lives, it is that we know we do not have the capabilities to make the world a magical happy place.
I, for one, resent your attitude towards the rest of us.
Why not leave now? Why wait if it's so hellish for you here? Leave "ignorant" Texas to the people that want to enforce the laws of the land. Perhaps there is a better state for you that makes up excuses not to enforce the law.
I will leave Texas when I am ready to leave. And I did not say it was so hellish" for me here. There is much about Texas that I love, just not the politics. But I'm not the only Texan who has a problem with the political machine here. And, putting our local law enforcement in the position of carrying out federal immigration laws not only makes their jobs harder, put puts us all in danger when undocumented folks are afraid to talk to police. Do you see any law enforcement heads supporting this B.S.?
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