Dallas vs Houston: Round 255 (San Antonio, Galveston: stats, rich, cities)

[Dallas12]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

Here's what I consider the core of Houston that has the potential to continue developing in the traditional urban sense (which is why Third Ward is not in this) or already is. This also leaves out the urban development "finger" between Westheimer and Richmond just west of Uptown, but I also mistakenly left the small Afton Oaks neighborhood (next to Uptown) so consider it a trade off haha:





And here's what I consider the core of Dallas that will also continue developing in the traditional urban sense. Even though much of the design district is warehouses, I still left it because it's been developing the last few years as a Victory Park extension almost:




Houston's core is larger, has more people, and higher density. Dallas' core is more cohesive and put together. I think this is to be expected considering the size differences of each city.

I appreciate the illustration. Essentially, any streetcar suburb and commercial districts that are adjacent to the CBD are part of the core.

[Dallas12]

Originally Posted by kdogg817

It depends on what integrating the community around it mean. If it involves the gentrification of South Dallas then that’s a no go. If it means giving the locals around fair park the opportunity to open up shops, venues, Arts, and entertainment to create unmatched cultural experienced for everybody to enjoy then yes. The issue with Dallas and DFW as whole is it has a very corporate mindset and considering corporate America mainly consist of white males you get this clean cut art and cultural experience that has the tendency to be bland instead of this raw uncut down to earth experience (the real Dallas experience) that DFW needs to showcase to everyone. This culture is there and is very prevalent throughout DFW but hasn’t exactly been granted a complete seat at the table.

Thank you for your analysis! I'm sure there's plenty of great things Dallas has from a cultural standpoint. We just need to have it create the right cultural institutions to market it as such. Houston has done a great job with that, and I believe Dallas can do the same.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

Okay so I missed a few blocks essentially. Greenville may be more polished, but the Heights still has pre-war urban build and improving infrastructure (sidewalks, trails, etc.). Doesn't take away from the point I've been making, especially considering I left off much more for Houston. I was trying to be fair there .

Lower Greenville is also pre-war.

You entirely missed the main drag of Greenville Ave which is as urban than any street in the Greater Heights.

[Exult.Q36]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

Wow kdogg this post is well thought out and intelligent , it's actually cogent, what did you have for breakfast this morning ?

Well thanks Jack. A good workout & electrolytes does the brain & body well.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

Here's what I consider the core of Houston that has the potential to continue developing in the traditional urban sense (which is why Third Ward is not in this) or already is. This also leaves out the urban development "finger" between Westheimer and Richmond just west of Uptown, but I also mistakenly left the small Afton Oaks neighborhood (next to Uptown) so consider it a trade off haha:





And here's what I consider the core of Dallas that will also continue developing in the traditional urban sense. Even though much of the design district is warehouses, I still left it because it's been developing the last few years as a Victory Park extension almost:




Houston's core is larger, has more people, and higher density. Dallas' core is more cohesive and put together. I think this is to be expected considering the size differences of each city.

I always thought Dallas' core stoped at the southern end of HP to the north...The cedars to the south
And Trinity Groves to the west and Deep Ellum/Bryan Place to the east..........I guess I learn something new every day.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

I always thought Dallas' core stoped at the southern end of HP to the north...The cedars to the south
And Trinity Groves to the west and Deep Ellum/Bryan Place to the east..........I guess I learn something new every day.

Yeah, I don't agree with his map, it's oddly missing some of the best core urban neighbourhoods in Dallas. Houston one I'm not 100% sure of either. While I have visited quite a bit, I've not lived there so I'll not claim to be able to draw a better Houston one.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Yeah, I don't agree with his map, it's oddly missing some of the best core urban neighbourhoods in Dallas. Houston one I'm not 100% sure of either. While I have visited quite a bit, I've not lived there so I'll not claim to be able to draw a better Houston one.

I tried my best to leave off single family neighborhoods (like I said in the post), which is why you don't see Lakewood for Dallas or Third Ward for Houston. The areas around Northpark have two light rail lines and there's a lot of mixed-use being built around there, which is why I included those areas. Even though traditionally they were not seen as Dallas' core. I've considered Loop 12 as Dallas' Loop 610, so to me including Northpark was fair.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

I tried my best to leave off single family neighborhoods (like I said in the post), which is why you don't see Lakewood for Dallas or Third Ward for Houston. The areas around Northpark have two light rail lines and there's a lot of mixed-use being built around there, which is why I included those areas. Even though traditionally they were not seen as Dallas' core. I've considered Loop 12 as Dallas' Loop 610, so to me including Northpark was fair.

This is a good point. The Dallas equivalent of 610 is not 635, its Loop 12.

[Redlionjr]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

*Downtown Dallas
*the Cedars
*MLK thoroughfare
*Deep Ellum
*North Oak Cliff
*St.Thomas District
*knox Henderson
*The west end
Also has Character

And every time you visit the previously mentioned "characterless" neighborhoods they're always busy with people dining on sidewalk patios goin in and out of storefronts having a good time......

If that's called characterless then I'll take it.

I did mention Deep Ellum which happens to be one of my favorite neighborhoods in Texas. I forgot North Oak Cliff. West End is a nice tourist spot. TOURIST though. MLK thoroughfare meh. Parades nice and all but too much blight in that area for my taste. Not to mention it's not like the city of Dallas acknowledges that area as a place of interest for locals and tourist alike.

People dining and walking is not considered having character. You clearly don't understand that. In my humble opinion Dallas and Houston both have a lot of generic manufactured neighborhoods surrounding Downtown. No real sense of community it's simply geared towards a specific group of people. It's not organic and it's fairly to new to really have an ingrained sense of culture,preservation and community.

Now don't get me wrong, I can still have a good time in those characterless manufactured niche areas. But i'm more of a fan of the organic eccentric colorful communities. Deep Ellum and North Oak Cliff definitely fall into that category for me. I just happen to like Houston's collection of those kinds of neighborhoods. Houston is an older city after all so they tend to sway a little better along with the inclusion those communities are open to.

With that said I think both as far as that department are nothing to write home about.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

I tried my best to leave off single family neighborhoods (like I said in the post), which is why you don't see Lakewood for Dallas or Third Ward for Houston. The areas around Northpark have two light rail lines and there's a lot of mixed-use being built around there, which is why I included those areas. Even though traditionally they were not seen as Dallas' core. I've considered Loop 12 as Dallas' Loop 610, so to me including Northpark was fair.

Yes, but the stretch you are leaving off includes quite a bit of apartments and condos. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8129...7i16384!8i8192

The Greater Heights is also mostly single-family homes too.....It isn't more urban than Lower Greenville.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7988...7i13312!8i6656

Old East Dallas is as or more urban than the Heights. They are pretty comparable and from the same general era.