Is Texas south or southwest? (El Paso, Tyler: vs, design, dental)

[KathrynAragon]

//www.city-data.com/forum/texas...southwest.html

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by thenewtexan

Both. Texas is a vast, diverse, state. You can't put us in a box!

You kind of can though, other states also don't fit perfectly into one region or another. States like Idaho and Montana have parts that fit more in the PNW and other parts that fit in the Mountain West. Western New York is part of the rust belt and has more in common with Ohio than it does with downstate. Is NC part of the South, Appalachia, or the coast. (answer, all the above)



I think it's a great question to think about, I would definitely consider Dallas, Houston and the eastern part of the state to be part of the south as you go west it gradually, becomes the south west, I used the tree line as a rough line.

"I just don't think Dallas feels all that southern" - lots of people.

True, Dallas as a major hub for transplants and doesnt feel as "Southern" as the Deep South, but where else would you place the culture?

It isn't a western culture, it isn't a Midwestern Culture, and it isn't a north eastern culture. Yes, I know it's "Texan" but that doesn't have a precise definition. If anything these cities are Southern in the "Texas way."

You can't be this far south, have statues of confederate generals (and schools and roads and museums), eat southern food like fried okra, pecans etc, have a history of segregation, (and before that slaves), have a long history of Baptists of the Southern persuasion and owe your very existence to cotton fields and not be in the south. Sure, places up north have one of two of these features, but over all, the culture is Southern.

Just because Atlanta feels "More southern" than Dallas doesn't mean Dallas isn't southern. Chicago is very different from the Twin Cities, but no one questions the Midwesterness of the two, even if Chicago has a stronger southern influence from the great migration, it's still a midwestern city.

Likewise, just because Dallas has had folks move down here from all over the place, and just because the "Southerness" doesn't feel as strong as it does in the deep south, doesn't change that Dallas is southern.


Now West Texas? Thats a different story.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by turf3

France - is it really part of Germany, or of Spain?

Thats a poor comparison, everyone knows France is in Western Europe.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by Thoreau424

Texas is Texas. We're not obsessed with and caught up with regional identifications and labels. Texas is independently located and minded. It is what it is.

The state contains too many regions to simplistically reduce the whole state to one area. It's dumb to even attempt that.

I've never been anywhere MORE obsessed with regional identifications and labels.

I've never been anywhere so obsessed with itself. This is literally the only place I've ever been where people will tell you they prefer to "Stay in Texas" if you want to go on a trip or camping or whatever, even if it means driving further within the state itself for a less impressive destination.

While the State does cross different regions of the country (high plains, South, South West) Texas is the only state I've visited (besides Alaska) that claims to be it's own region unto itself.

To quote you "Texas is Texas." The bonds of this arbitrary boundary are such that People in El Paso will relate to people in Tyler on the "Texasness" of things even if they clearly live in very different regions of the country, but within the Texas border.

More than a few people will tell you that Texas isn't the South West or South, Texas is Texas, a region unto itself. This is fascinating because it would be a region only based on very oddly shaped political boundaries and the political history, not geographical similarity or even proximity.

[turf3]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Thats a poor comparison, everyone knows France is in Western Europe.

The point of my frequent rejoinder to these tiresome questions, is that Texas is neither the South, nor the Southwest.


OF COURSE, anyone can clearly see that the eastern part of the state has similarities to the Deep South, and anyone can clearly see that the western part of the state has similarities to the desert Southwest. And OF COURSE everyone realizes that climate and geographical features don't follow political boundaries.


But the culture of East Texas, I would submit, is different than the culture of Mississippi; and the culture of West Texas, I would submit, is different than the culture of New Mexico. The fact that Texas has a distinct history and patterns of settlement that are different than the history and patterns of settlements of the states surrounding it has given it a distinct cultural character that is its own.


Hence my comment about France, Germany, and Spain. Anyone knows that a town 1 km on the French side of the Spanish border, and a town 1 km on the Spanish side, are going to be very very similar; but that does not negate the fact that France, Germany, and Spain have very distinct histories and cultures.

[turf3]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

is fascinating because it would be a region only based on very oddly shaped political boundaries and the political history, not geographical similarity or even proximity.

And your point would be?


Of course it is based on history and patterns of settlement!


Have you never been to Florida? Miami is highly Cuban. Southern Fla. on both sides is basically a mixture of New York and Boston, culturally speaking. Western Florida is Gulf Coast southern, culturally.

[Thoreau424]

Just check all of the boxes, move on, and don't worry about it.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by turf3

The point of my frequent rejoinder to these tiresome questions, is that Texas is neither the South, nor the Southwest.


OF COURSE, anyone can clearly see that the eastern part of the state has similarities to the Deep South, and anyone can clearly see that the western part of the state has similarities to the desert Southwest. And OF COURSE everyone realizes that climate and geographical features don't follow political boundaries.


But the culture of East Texas, I would submit, is different than the culture of Mississippi; and the culture of West Texas, I would submit, is different than the culture of New Mexico. The fact that Texas has a distinct history and patterns of settlement that are different than the history and patterns of settlements of the states surrounding it has given it a distinct cultural character that is its own.


Hence my comment about France, Germany, and Spain. Anyone knows that a town 1 km on the French side of the Spanish border, and a town 1 km on the Spanish side, are going to be very very similar; but that does not negate the fact that France, Germany, and Spain have very distinct histories and cultures.

To be part of the south you don't have to be part of the Deep South. Eastern Texas, up to about Dallas, is part of the south, it isn't "Similar to the south" it has real historical and cultural ties to the south, it is located in the geographical south.

No, Eastern Texas isn't the same as Mississippi, but Chicago and Iowa are different too, but they can both be part of the midwest.

Yeah, but with France, Germany, and Spain, you have significant historical, cultural, and linguistic differences on a scale you don't find between any US state an another.

Also a large part of the similarity between towns on different sides of the French and Spanish border is due to a 3rd culture, the Basque, who don't have their own state, but who predate the modern people in France and Spain by thousands of years who live in the border region.

Also, you have a literal mountain range between the two countries, as in a real physical barrier. You don't get that in Texas, it's a more gradual transition from the South to the west as you get less rain and trees, less traditional southern crops and it transitions into the west.

[thenewtexan]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

You kind of can though, other states also don't fit perfectly into one region or another. States like Idaho and Montana have parts that fit more in the PNW and other parts that fit in the Mountain West. Western New York is part of the rust belt and has more in common with Ohio than it does with downstate. Is NC part of the South, Appalachia, or the coast. (answer, all the above)



I think it's a great question to think about, I would definitely consider Dallas, Houston and the eastern part of the state to be part of the south as you go west it gradually, becomes the south west, I used the tree line as a rough line.

"I just don't think Dallas feels all that southern" - lots of people.

True, Dallas as a major hub for transplants and doesnt feel as "Southern" as the Deep South, but where else would you place the culture?

It isn't a western culture, it isn't a Midwestern Culture, and it isn't a north eastern culture. Yes, I know it's "Texan" but that doesn't have a precise definition. If anything these cities are Southern in the "Texas way."

You can't be this far south, have statues of confederate generals (and schools and roads and museums), eat southern food like fried okra, pecans etc, have a history of segregation, (and before that slaves), have a long history of Baptists of the Southern persuasion and owe your very existence to cotton fields and not be in the south. Sure, places up north have one of two of these features, but over all, the culture is Southern.

Just because Atlanta feels "More southern" than Dallas doesn't mean Dallas isn't southern. Chicago is very different from the Twin Cities, but no one questions the Midwesterness of the two, even if Chicago has a stronger southern influence from the great migration, it's still a midwestern city.

Likewise, just because Dallas has had folks move down here from all over the place, and just because the "Southerness" doesn't feel as strong as it does in the deep south, doesn't change that Dallas is southern.


Now West Texas? Thats a different story.

You kind of can't though. Thanks.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by thenewtexan

You kind of can't though. Thanks.

It can though. Though it's a transitional area, the eastern part of the state is absolutely southern, and the western in absolutely south western. Both are "Texan" which is more of a political/cultural identity than anything else. They don't need to be identical to other southern and western states for this to be correct.