Texas being excluded from the South (Houston, Fort Worth: Hispanics, water, fish)

[MustermannBB]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

I disagree. I think the vibe in San Antonio is more southern than Dallas. Take a look at the King William neighborhood south of downtown:

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4127...7i13312!8i6656

I consider being Texan just an offshoot of being southern, same as being a Virginian, or Kentuckian. They might have particular local pride.

None of these regions are monoliths. Michigan and South Dakota are both Midwestern. Sure South Dakota has a western vib and Michigan a more eastern vibe, but thats fine.

Utah, Colorado and Nevada all have different vibes, cultures, and radically different laws. They are all still the west.

I quite frankly don't see how being Hispanic disqualifies you from being a southerner any more than being a native american in the Dakotas would make you not a Midwesterner.

King William is a great area. I know it very well. Beautiful neighborhood. However I can't agree it has a southern vibe.
And what is all this stuff about Hispanics and that they would be the reason for disqualification in any way?


Where did I state that?

[MustermannBB]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Go to NOLA and compare that to Richmond, you won't think they are even from the same planet.

I can't comment on NOLA since I never been there. But I think it would be safe to say the Louisiana and it's cities are predominantly southern (yes?) so NOLA could be an exception. Texas and the majority of its cities are not southern . Even if one would summarily declare everything east of I35 southern (which btw I wouldn't agree with) that still leaves a huge chunk not southern.



That is my opinion, I'm sure you don't share it.

[Soonhun]

Originally Posted by MustermannBB

IMHO it is narrow minded to use things from over a 100 years ago to suggest that these 2 cities are southern, when the reality and present on the ground shows nothing of this. If cities like SA or El Paso simply are southern because way back then they can be connected to slavery and the Confederacy, then the south as a culture in today's world is pretty much made meaningless.

I do think the "South" as some monolithic cultural region is completely meaningless. El Paso and San Antonio are currently Southern in their own way and similarities ther cities may have to them do not diminish that. The West doesn't have a monopoly on having an established Hispanic populations, arid climates, and small black rural populations. In the same way neither the Deep South or original Southern colonies, neither of which Texas (or vast majority, including its population) is a part, has a monopoly on defining "Southern vibe."

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by MustermannBB

I can't comment on NOLA since I never been there. But I think it would be safe to say the Louisiana and it's cities are predominantly southern (yes?) so NOLA could be an exception. Texas and the majority of its cities are not southern . Even if one would summarily declare everything east of I35 southern (which btw I wouldn't agree with) that still leaves a huge chunk not southern.



That is my opinion, I'm sure you don't share it.

Yeah no, NOLA is absolutely southern, it's just very, very different from the rest of the south (Catholic, French influence etc)

[MustermannBB]

Originally Posted by Parhe

I do think the "South" as some monolithic cultural region is completely meaningless. El Paso and San Antonio are currently Southern in their own way and similarities ther cities may have to them do not diminish that. The West doesn't have a monopoly on having an established Hispanic populations, arid climates, and small black rural populations. In the same way neither the Deep South or original Southern colonies, neither of which Texas (or vast majority, including its population) is a part, has a monopoly on defining "Southern vibe."

That is fair then. I can agree with that in that context and from the POV.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by MustermannBB

King William is a great area. I know it very well. Beautiful neighborhood. However I can't agree it has a southern vibe.
And what is all this stuff about Hispanics and that they would be the reason for disqualification in any way?


Where did I state that?

What vibe does it possibly have then? I don't know if you are familiar with the Neoclassical style or architecture in general, but if King William isn't southern in style I have no idea what it is. The style certainly isn't Midwestern or Western.

Sure, you get a mix of some other stuff mixed in, a couple Second Empire, a Modern but some of the biggest and oldest homes are all Greek Revival, Neoclassical etc. The "Whos Who" list of southern architectural styles.

[MustermannBB]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

What vibe does it possibly have then? I don't know if you are familiar with the Neoclassical style or architecture in general, but if King William isn't southern in style I have no idea what it is. The style certainly isn't Midwestern or Western.

Sure, you get a mix of some other stuff mixed in, a couple Second Empire, a Modern but some of the biggest and oldest homes are all Greek Revival, Neoclassical etc. The "Whos Who" list of southern architectural styles.

The vibe I get in King William, is the same I get at the Blue Star and all along of S. Alamo and practically Southtown in general. Hipster Central.



People say Maryland is southern yet Baltimore has row-homes like in Philadelphia. So I wouldn't get too hung up on architecture. But I can appreciate how one would count as a factor.

I think we have just have different perspectives and definition on the vibe of a city and/or culture there.

.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by MustermannBB

The vibe I get in King William, is the same I get at the Blue Star and all along of S. Alamo and practically Southtown in general. Hipster Central.

Yeah, but "Hipster" isn't a region. You can have hipsters in Atlanta or Portland, and the cities still keep their respective vibes and still belong in their respective regions.

[kemahkami]

Originally Posted by biscuit_head

As a former resident of Los Angeles, I don't get the comparisons between Houston and Los Angeles.

In the wise words of Molly Ivins, "Houston is Los Angeles with the climate of Calcutta."

The comparisons are simply in the sense of foil, where ostensible differences are used to highlight the uncanny similarities. Or vice-versa.

Originally Posted by soletaire

Not only that, but (at least in the case of Houston and East Texas, the large hispanic population actually isnt old at all. The large hispanic population presence in Houston is fairly recent (as in, within the last 100 years)

So Hispanics have been present for over half of Houston's existence? With that half corresponding to truly important growth? Wow, they truly do have a storied presence there.

Originally Posted by Parhe

I mean't diversity in terms of local culture, not ethnic or racial diversity
Which you yourself point out by dividing up the South and talking about the differences between Texas, Florida, and the Deep South. Although, that said, I don't know wny region of the US that has demographics morr diverse than the South throughout the entire region. Maybe Northeast, but that's only because of how physically large the Bos-Was corridor is with the rest of the region being also pretty monolithically White.

And local culture is a reflection of the demographics, which race and ethnicity plays an important role. The South may not be monolithic, but the Hispanic contingent of Texas is still too strong of a deviance. And given that Texas Hispanics are largely of Mexican descent, a phenomenon most significant elsewhere in the SW US states, it's not hard to see why issues arise in trying to classify Texas as wholy Southern.

[soletaire]

Originally Posted by ScrappyJoe

So Hispanics have been present for over half of Houston's existence? With that half corresponding to truly important growth? Wow, they truly do have a storied presence there..

Very true...youd think theyd have a much longer history there as large as the population is today.