Texas being excluded from the South (Austin, West: organic, annexation, Russian)

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

That’s a great question. Would you like to answer it?

I’ll answer it anyway. The southern US still has the negative stigma attached to it from its role in slavery. For that reason, mostly white people, look for ways to exclude themselves from the south despite the fact that it’s geographically undoubtedly the South.

From your description of yourself, a brown skinned man from my place of birth… this makes me wonder about your emotional ties to be disinclined in the south

Let’s see how I can explain this in few words
I’ve lived most of my life in the US and I have travelled through all the states in the South.

Like most immigrants, there’s a lot of things that didn’t make sense to me when I came to the US
I spent a lot of time trying to learn why things are the way they are in this country

I’ll give you my answer to the question “What is the South”? = There’s no right answer
Before the civil war, the South was the “slave states”
Notice that Maryland and Delaware were slave states



And then you have the confederacy that lasted only 4 years from 1861 to 1865
Notice that it doesn’t include Kentucky and West Virginia



After the civil war, there was a big push to romanticize the South by promoting “The lost cause”
Basically rewriting history to say that The South were the good guys fighting for freedom and the North were the bad guys fighting to take the South freedom away.

One of the main groups pushing that propaganda was “The daughters of the confederacy” and one of the main things they did was try to put statues of so-called confederate heroes in every city.

In the 1950s and 1960s people fought for minorities civil rights, a fight for freedom and equality
Pro segregation people decided to say that they were fighting for “Southern values” and use the confederate flag as their symbol.

Notice on this map of states with segregated education in the 1950s that it includes Missouri , Oklahoma, Kentucky and West Virginia



On top of everything I’ve shown you … you have to keep in mind that when people talk about “The South” they talk about the romanticized image of the South which doesn’t show Mexicans, Chinese or any immigrant.
Just wealthy white people with black people being happy to be second class citizens.

That’s why for a lot of people think that Texas and Florida are not part of “The South”
There’s too many immigrants in those 2 states for their taste.
That’s why you’ll see maps that shows only East Texas and northern Florida as being part of The South

Notice that in Texas “The South” ends where Dallas and Houston begin

[DaBears02]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Overall, I agree. But I’d certainly add Fort Worth as a fully southern city. Unless you were including it in with Dallas.

Yeah I lumped it in with Dallas sorry lol. DFW is southern to me.

[R1070]

Houston is definitely more South-ish than DFW considering where it's located, it just makes sense. Going East of DFW, you can feel a shift in scenery and culture. As for the FW side of DFW...it just gives me Texas vibes, not what you'd consider the Deep South.

[Seguinite]

Originally Posted by hotboyxroshi

I've never understood why people try to exclude Texas from the South ...

I don't understand why anyone would care. It's Texas. Everybody knows where it is, and that a lot of things are better there.

[DesertRat56]

Originally Posted by hotboyxroshi

I've never understood why people try to exclude Texas from the South. Obviously places like West Texas and the Panhandle aren't Southern but it's just strange to me that there's always been a debate for the rest of the state and it sometimes gets excluded for the strangest reasons like Mexican influence (as if other cultures haven't influenced the rest of the South) or accent (as if there is only one Southern accent and only one Texan accent).

Is it the pine trees that only certain parts of the South have? The transplants? Is Atlanta kicked out of the South too? Not that I'm proud of Texas' role in the Civil War, but growing up in Dallas/Fort Worth, we had schools, statues and streets dedicated to Confederate soldiers. I grew up not far from two streets named Jefferson and Davis than run parallel to each other.

I just don't get it.

don't feel bad about it. We exclude Texas from the SouthWest as well. My opinion is that Texas is further south in attitudes than any other southern state.

Dallas is the bright shiney belt buckle and Midland is the dark crusty backside of the Bible Belt.

[Thoreau424]

Texas has always stood on its own. It was its own nation 1836-1845, and has maintained its own identity and philosophies. We don't need to be connected with any other regions. That would be dumbing down, and going in the wrong direction.

Individualism is an honorable trait, whether among states, or as an individual. Following the crowd, and riding on other's bandwagons, is for the weak and the needy.

[BobTex]

Originally Posted by Arkay66

That said, why do people insist on bringing up "THE South" as if it's a solid, homogenous bloc? It's not. Grow up and stop pulling the stereotype card -- it's worn out way past usefulness.

Not on these discussion boards.

Folks live to hate and demean here. Get on board or get left behind. It's one of the main reasons I rarely post on the Texas C-D board. I was pretty active in it's first 10 years on C-D Texas.

The attitudes here are encouraged divisive hatefulness and bickering. Screw that ! Plenty of places to get along, learn, and enjoy discussion that this place.

To coin a favorite line out of a favorite song of mine : "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong" !

[supfromthesite]

Can't believe this thread is still going

[Redlionjr]

Originally Posted by Thoreau424

Texas has always stood on its own. It was its own nation 1836-1845, and has maintained its own identity and philosophies. We don't need to be connected with any other regions. That would be dumbing down, and going in the wrong direction.

Individualism is an honorable trait, whether among states, or as an individual. Following the crowd, and riding on other's bandwagons, is for the weak and the needy.

Texas in it's early inception was very much tied to the hip with the rest of the south. Depended heavily on Enslaved labor. Joined the confederacy. It was it's own nation because it had to be in the beginning not because of some overly romanticized revisionist history of some Individualistic identity the state would adopt after the oil boom.

Matter fact had it not been for the oil industry, Texas without question would be consider a southern state. It all the makings of a southern state or at least majority of the state east of 35.

Also other states in this country were sovereign nations as well right along with Texas. The difference between them and Texas is Texas used that to market themselves and detach themselves from a failing region in the south.

So yeah saying Texans always stood on their own is inaccurate. The actions of Southern migrants moving to Texas in the very beginning says otherwise.

[atadytic19]

Yeah, this own nation thing is silly.
The Austin settlers lived like Southern Americans in ever sense of the word. Becoming a state is a process. You don't just declare you are a state.
If you are independent from Mexico and awaiting approval for statehood, then ofcourse you will be an independent republic.

The areas that the US claimed, or those they purchased were territories before they became states because they didn't declare independence.

But, Texas is not by any means unique in that regard.

1. Republic of California- seceded from Mexico
2. Republic of Vermont-aka Green Mountain and New Connecticut-asserted independence from New York-
3. Indian Stream- broke off from New England
4. West Florida- areas if FL, AL, MS and LA
5. Muskogee- carved out if Florida
6. Fredonia- before the Texas Republic, tge Republic of Fredonia declared independence from Mexico.
7. Republic of Franklin- broke off from NC and was this Republic before it became Tennessee.
8. Republic of Rio Grande- parts of Texas and Coahuila
9. Oregon- Oregon, Washington, Idaho,Montana & Wyoming
10. Deseret- the States of Utah, Arizona and Nevada and parts of Oregon, California, New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming


And the most legit claim to being unique:
The Kingdom of Hawaii


Texans love to brag about it being its own country like that somehow makes it unique from the rest of the south. It does not. It was settled by southerners, it maintained southern traditions and moved in lock step with the south.

When I first moved to Texas there were commercials that ended something like this : Texas, it's like a whole other country. I guess some take this to mean it is unique, but the reference is more to physical size, rather than uniqueness.

Don't get me wrong, Texas does have lots of unique aspects apart from share size. From its early beginnings it had a huge German and Czech population which were not really a thing in the rest of the south. The Germans were anti-slavery and voted against secession.

But by and large, prior to the 1900s, Texas was pretty much indistinguishable from other southern states. The Mexican Revolution caused a flood of migrants from Mexico into Texas after 1910.