Confederate plaque to be removed from Texas Capitol.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch

This story had me dying laughing. Like seriously almost crying over here.

I definitely thought it was gonna end with him taking the deal and you telling us about the subsequent inevitable disaster lol

Haha!

Here's a more poignant family story, one that's also true that I witnessed first hand.

Like I said, my dad was always very proud of his Confederate ancestry. He always thought that "the south was done wrong by the federal government." He always downplayed the slavery issue.

So one day he was perusing some old documents in his office. I walked in on him and caught him with tears in his eyes reading these documents which were slave documents from his side of the family.

What had gotten him choked up was this entry - something along these lines though I don't recall the exact name of the slave:

Benjamin, age 4, mulatto - slave for life

Now - his beloved grandchildren are "mulatto." (Actually, come to find out, their dad is about 20 percent southern European/Iberian/French - something like that but basically he looks 100 percent "west African.")

Anyway, they were school aged at the time he uncovered these documents on slave ownership, a sort of census. Each slave was listed - and it was interesting because some of them, regardless of "mixture," were not "slaves for life." Some were more like indentured servants. But most had their names and ages and "mixture" listed, and after those entries were the words "slave for life."

There is nothing - NOTHING - that Benjamin, aged 4, could have ever done to deserve being a slave for life - let alone being part of any decision that designated him as such. And I think it had to hit my dad - his own grandkids would have probably been designated as such.

I looked at him and said, "Dad. Nothing justifies this. Nothing."

He still carried on his Civil War reinactments, much to the chagrin of the entire family. And he was totally in denial about the legacy and long term effects of slavery.

In his family, after the Civil War, the slaves were freed - but basically they became indentured servants or whatever you call it - working land that wasn't theirs, "renting" it by their labor, staying for the most part in the same houses, working the same land, for the same people, only now they got "wages," which were promptly spent on rent and at the company store for groceries. Never getting ahead. I guess the only different thing is that they did finally get to go to school legally. Some left, but most stayed.

When I was growing up, my dad's parents had a maid named Juliet. She was the descendant of slaves. She apparently adored my dad, her "white grandbaby," and he adored her. He grew up playing with her kids and grandkids on that farm. But they lived in shanties and he lived in "the big house."

Over the years, we attended many weddings and funerals at the local black church. Our families became intertwined - and yet, there was that difference. When Juliet "retired," my grandparents and their brothers and sisters gave her a house and a few acres of land - ironically it was the house that my dad was born in and it was probably at least 80 years old. It had become part of "the farm" when my dad's grandparents bought it from my dad's mom's parents. My paternal grandmother had been raised in that house and had grown up picking cotton and working the land, like so many other less fortunate white southerners had done - she "married up" when she married my granddad from "the big house."

So anyway, everyone - including apparently Juliet - thought this was a fair deal. It was after all a form of retirement so to speak, and it did have some value. It put a roof over her head - an 80 year old roof in a clapboard house but still - it was a roof, and she lived out the rest of her life in that house. Then she left it to her sister, who we also knew and loved.

I visited her sister not that long ago - and not only that, she came and visited my parents and me and stayed several days and we had a marvelous time. In that little rural area, white and black folks often would not get married without first bringing their "intended" to meet the sister, because she would tell them straight up after spending an afternoon with tea, with the intended, whether or not she thought they were a good fit. I even took my soon to be husband to meet her! (He passed the test!) When she passed away a couple of years ago, there was a big write up in the local paper.

But regardless of all the kumbaya and good vibes and friendliness between the families of the community, Juliet and her family were still dirt poor and were really stuck in that situation for the most part. And still are today.

I understand the affectionate feelings between families that grow up together, black and white side by side. It may even be unique to the south, and is one of the elements of being southern "way back" that some white southerners cling to as evidence of good race relations. It's true that Juliet and her family were respected in many ways - but I'm pretty sure that the color line was always, always there and always felt.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

Haha!

Here's a more poignant family story, one that's also true that I witnessed first hand.

Like I said, my dad was always very proud of his Confederate ancestry. He always thought that "the south was done wrong by the federal government." He always downplayed the slavery issue.

So one day he was perusing some old documents in his office. I walked in on him and caught him with tears in his eyes reading these documents which were slave documents from his side of the family.

What had gotten him choked up was this entry - something along these lines though I don't recall the exact name of the slave:

Benjamin, age 4, mulatto - slave for life

Now - his beloved grandchildren are "mulatto." (Actually, come to find out, their dad is about 20 percent southern European/Iberian/French - something like that but basically he looks 100 percent "west African.")

Anyway, they were school aged at the time he uncovered these documents on slave ownership, a sort of census. Each slave was listed - and it was interesting because some of them, regardless of "mixture," were not "slaves for life." Some were more like indentured servants. But most had their names and ages and "mixture" listed, and after those entries were the words "slave for life."

There is nothing - NOTHING - that Benjamin, aged 4, could have ever done to deserve being a slave for life - let alone being part of any decision that designated him as such. And I think it had to hit my dad - his own grandkids would have probably been designated as such.

I looked at him and said, "Dad. Nothing justifies this. Nothing."

He still carried on his Civil War reinactments, much to the chagrin of the entire family. And he was totally in denial about the legacy and long term effects of slavery.

In his family, after the Civil War, the slaves were freed - but basically they became indentured servants or whatever you call it - working land that wasn't theirs, "renting" it by their labor, staying for the most part in the same houses, working the same land, for the same people, only now they got "wages," which were promptly spent on rent and at the company store for groceries. Never getting ahead. I guess the only different thing is that they did finally get to go to school legally. Some left, but most stayed.

When I was growing up, my dad's parents had a maid named Juliet. She was the descendant of slaves. She apparently adored my dad, her "white grandbaby," and he adored her. He grew up playing with her kids and grandkids on that farm. But they lived in shanties and he lived in "the big house."

Over the years, we attended many weddings and funerals at the local black church. Our families became intertwined - and yet, there was that difference. When Juliet "retired," my grandparents and their brothers and sisters gave her a house and a few acres of land - ironically it was the house that my dad was born in and it was probably at least 80 years old. It had become part of "the farm" when my dad's grandparents bought it from my dad's mom's parents. My paternal grandmother had been raised in that house and had grown up picking cotton and working the land, like so many other less fortunate white southerners had done - she "married up" when she married my granddad from "the big house."

So anyway, everyone - including apparently Juliet - thought this was a fair deal. It was after all a form of retirement so to speak, and it did have some value. It put a roof over her head - an 80 year old roof in a clapboard house but still - it was a roof, and she lived out the rest of her life in that house. Then she left it to her sister, who we also knew and loved.

I visited her sister not that long ago - and not only that, she came and visited my parents and me and stayed several days and we had a marvelous time. In that little rural area, white and black folks often would not get married without first bringing their "intended" to meet the sister, because she would tell them straight up after spending an afternoon with tea, with the intended, whether or not she thought they were a good fit. I even took my soon to be husband to meet her! (He passed the test!) When she passed away a couple of years ago, there was a big write up in the local paper.

But regardless of all the kumbaya and good vibes and friendliness between the families of the community, Juliet and her family were still dirt poor and were really stuck in that situation for the most part. And still are today.

I understand the affectionate feelings between families that grow up together, black and white side by side. It may even be unique to the south, and is one of the elements of being southern "way back" that some white southerners cling to as evidence of good race relations. It's true that Juliet and her family were respected in many ways - but I'm pretty sure that the color line was always, always there and always felt.

Looking to those days, reason enough to never take for granted what we have now. Living back in those days would have been horrible.

This story, in a big way, illuminates the role race plays, and at the same time, can obscure it. Two families growing up together, yet being apart in many ways. I don't really have any family stories like that in my family. I imagine there were some stories like this in the South. On the other hand, I have run into individuals who might try to use those kind of stories as a gaslighting tactic. Granted, this doesn't apply to you, as you're using this as a teachable moment. Some individuals indeed would use such stories to say "see, race relations have been better down here". I'm going on a tangent though. I think about how this story does illuminate and obscure the issue of race. On one hand, there was likely good will between both families. On the other hand, you brought up how that particular Black family remained poor and went back to the slums. One could be fooled into thinking race relations were alright. At the same time, it also showed a large divide in terms of race.

There are those do not see the legacy of the Civil War because they do not pay attention. In many ways, they don't have to. It passes for normal. I know one guy from many years ago (we're still in touch). He bought into the "lost cause" theory of the Confederacy. He tried to downplay slavery as being a part of the cause. He eventually admitted, with much embarrassment and shame, that slavery was a big part of it. He grew to hate the Confederate flag. Granted, I never saw him brandish one. At one time he was in denial.

[ScoPro]

Kathryn, that’s a fascinating family history. But don’t be so hard on ol’ Dad ‘ playing soldier is fun for a lot of guys.

[green_mariner]

I just came from another thread about the Confederate flag. Let's just say it is very heated. When you know better, you do better. However, some people don't want to do better. To say that some people are just defiant and determined to do stupid things.