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I said more upscale, not better. The Woodlands is more upscale, as its average home income is far higher, there are luxury stores, and perfectly designed neighborhoods etc. But I prefer Plano than the Woodlands. Plano's dining options, nightlife etc have more to offer. Basically, the Woodlands is better if you are rich and calm, Plano is better for everyone else.
That said, the Woodlands isn't Houston's best suburb either just because its the most upscale. Katy has its own Chinatown, some of the best Venezuelan food in USA, the boardwalk, waterpark, nightlife and two major malls. Yep, I'll take Katy over the Woodlands.
I actually think the reason for Dallas is because the vast majority of the Dallas side of the DFW metro is North of Dallas. Most people don't realize this but all of Collin and 70%+ of Denton is seemingly oriented towards Dallas, even though Denton is directly North-NE of Fort Worth. Dallas is smack dab in the middle of Dallas County, but not only does only 500,000 people live in the Southern half of Dallas, city limits, less than 700,000 live in South Dallas when you exclude Mesquite and Grand Priarie as eastern and western burbs respectively, you throw them in, you get roughly 950,000 in Dallas County South of 30. Add in Kaufmann and Ellis and we are talking about 1.2 million folk in an area dominated by minorities versus, Collin+Denton by itself being 1.8 million and Dallas County north of I-30 being 1.5 million people. We are talking nearly 3 times the amount of people in the Northern half of the Dallas side of the metro,even taking out Denton County we are still talking well over twice the amount of folk. I wouldn't be surprised if Tarrant County had more people in it's southern half than Dallas besides the smaller population.
North Dallas IS Dallas. Sure we are including Garland/Irving/Farmers Branch/parts of East and NE Dallas as well as the area around Love Field which are all majority-minority areas (The areas in Dallas of heavy minority presence don't even add up to 200,000 people but all of these communities are on the periphery i.e on the edge with Farmers Branch being the most centrally located place North of Dallas, and still shows that Dallas's North dominated the metro not only perception wise but population wise as well. The rest of the Dallas half of the metro is only 30% of the population.
You could generalized Dallas as North is good, South is bad, East and West as meh and generally be right for most of the metro area, even the Fort Worth side a bit.
West Houston while larger than East Houston due to SE Houston, "Galveston" is nowhere as dominant. Especially if you use 288+45 to split the city directly in half. Pearland is mostly East of 288, not to mention League City, Baytown, Pasadena, Kingwood, Clear Lake, most of Conroe all being East of the line as well, and The Woodlands skirting it.
Dallas is more segregated, while Cedar Hill is still my favorite burb in Dallas, their's an equivalent of 40 Cedar Hills north of Dallas, with nearly all of Dallas's most prestigous areas bordering it, I feel like similar to Northern Virginia or Orange County an effect of being surrounded by wealth means everyone wants to act wealthy, like it snowballs a bit as it's just middle class areas bordering wealthy areas bordering middle class areas bordering a lower middle class area and so on in North Dallas.
In Houston, North Katy is like Irving and is in the middle of West Houston. Spring Branch is like the Lake Highlands/NE Dallas area I mentioned except instead of being on the periphery is dead center of West Houston. Gulfton which is the start of SW Houston to the north south and east borders exclusive areas is similar to Vickery Meadow,on a larger scale. Alief, Sharpstown, Fondren SW, Westwood border the nice burbs in Fort Bend as well as Memorial area to the north. The GOOF directly borders Acres Homes. Even the Woodlands which is probably the most hidden place in the entire metro from a majority-minority town is just down the road from Conroe, which while not "ghetto" in the sense of really high crime it's filled with Working Class that's hard to find in any true North Dallas suburb.
tldr. Dallas's geography allows more of a rate race among wealthy folk to form as wealthy folk live around other wealthy folk by a much larger, margin, while Houston's wealthiest neighborhoods are only a couple blocks from poverty in many cases so it's a more humbling experience, hence Keeping up with the Joneses' is only restriced to places like Kingwood and The Woodlands that are more isolated from poverty than the majority of Houston.
I actually think the reason for Dallas is because the vast majority of the Dallas side of the DFW metro is North of Dallas. Most people don't realize this but all of Collin and 70%+ of Denton is seemingly oriented towards Dallas, even though Denton is directly North-NE of Fort Worth. Dallas is smack dab in the middle of Dallas County, but not only does only 500,000 people live in the Southern half of Dallas, city limits, less than 700,000 live in South Dallas when you exclude Mesquite and Grand Priarie as eastern and western burbs respectively, you throw them in, you get roughly 950,000 in Dallas County South of 30. Add in Kaufmann and Ellis and we are talking about 1.2 million folk in an area dominated by minorities versus, Collin+Denton by itself being 1.8 million and Dallas County north of I-30 being 1.5 million people. We are talking nearly 3 times the amount of people in the Northern half of the Dallas side of the metro,even taking out Denton County we are still talking well over twice the amount of folk. I wouldn't be surprised if Tarrant County had more people in it's southern half than Dallas besides the smaller population.
North Dallas IS Dallas. Sure we are including Garland/Irving/Farmers Branch/parts of East and NE Dallas as well as the area around Love Field which are all majority-minority areas (The areas in Dallas of heavy minority presence don't even add up to 200,000 people but all of these communities are on the periphery i.e on the edge with Farmers Branch being the most centrally located place North of Dallas, and still shows that Dallas's North dominated the metro not only perception wise but population wise as well. The rest of the Dallas half of the metro is only 30% of the population.
You could generalized Dallas as North is good, South is bad, East and West as meh and generally be right for most of the metro area, even the Fort Worth side a bit.
West Houston while larger than East Houston due to SE Houston, "Galveston" is nowhere as dominant. Especially if you use 288+45 to split the city directly in half. Pearland is mostly East of 288, not to mention League City, Baytown, Pasadena, Kingwood, Clear Lake, most of Conroe all being East of the line as well, and The Woodlands skirting it.
Dallas is more segregated, while Cedar Hill is still my favorite burb in Dallas, their's an equivalent of 40 Cedar Hills north of Dallas, with nearly all of Dallas's most prestigous areas bordering it, I feel like similar to Northern Virginia or Orange County an effect of being surrounded by wealth means everyone wants to act wealthy, like it snowballs a bit as it's just middle class areas bordering wealthy areas bordering middle class areas bordering a lower middle class area and so on in North Dallas.
In Houston, North Katy is like Irving and is in the middle of West Houston. Spring Branch is like the Lake Highlands/NE Dallas area I mentioned except instead of being on the periphery is dead center of West Houston. Gulfton which is the start of SW Houston to the north south and east borders exclusive areas is similar to Vickery Meadow,on a larger scale. Alief, Sharpstown, Fondren SW, Westwood border the nice burbs in Fort Bend as well as Memorial area to the north. The GOOF directly borders Acres Homes. Even the Woodlands which is probably the most hidden place in the entire metro from a majority-minority town is just down the road from Conroe, which while not "ghetto" in the sense of really high crime it's filled with Working Class that's hard to find in any true North Dallas suburb.
tldr. Dallas's geography allows more of a rate race among wealthy folk to form as wealthy folk live around other wealthy folk by a much larger, margin, while Houston's wealthiest neighborhoods are only a couple blocks from poverty in many cases so it's a more humbling experience, hence Keeping up with the Joneses' is only restriced to places like Kingwood and The Woodlands that are more isolated from poverty than the majority of Houston.
This doesn’t make sense. You can say it’s the reason that rich and poor Dallasites are more separate, but this isn’t the reason for the strange city data perception. Explain Los Angeles. West Hollywood isn’t far from Beverley Hills who isn’t far from Inglewood.
And on the contrary to what you said, Houston’s affluent neighborhoods are in their own area. River Oaks is surrounded by Upper Kirby, Uptown and Afton Oaks. Gulfton would be the closest “ghetto” but it’s severely gentrified by now. So much so that they’re home to a number of thriving company’s headquarters.
I’ll stick to it being an urban legend grown from city data’s aging population that accepts things as true when you say it enough. Like Houston being America’s most diverse city. It’s diverse, but not number one despite people labeling it as such.
If you’re saying Houston’s wealthy and poor are more known interchangeable than Dallas then I agree. That could be the reason for the perception. But the reason they aren’t known “together” isn’t due to neighborhood considerations. Both have them separated just like anywhere in this country. It’s simply because Dallas isn’t as known for their minority neighborhoods and diversity the way Houston is. Houston is thought to be America’s most diverse city, plus all the black celebrities that Houston is home to, plus the famed Hispanic culture and hip hop culture. Dallas has all this too, they’re just not as known for it unfortunately.
Last edited by ParaguaneroSwag; 05-05-2020 at 04:58 AM..
They’re nice. Just don’t have as much going on as Katy. Although Sugar Land does have the Smart Financial Center that brings in big concerts. But Katy has 2 major malls, a Chinatown, a water park, nightlife and I’ll never get tired of saying how good the Venezuelan food there is. The Katy Boardwalk District under construction is another game changer they have going on.
The Katy Boardwalk is nice but I dont think I'd classify it as a game changer. It is nice though. A hotel, apartments. Retail and some offices. All situated in a mixed use development with a boardwalk.
If it works to attract a few large employers then it's good. If it's just another place to eat, shop and walk the it's not so great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag
They’re nice. Just don’t have as much going on as Katy. Although Sugar Land does have the Smart Financial Center that brings in big concerts. But Katy has 2 major malls, a Chinatown, a water park, nightlife and I’ll never get tired of saying how good the Venezuelan food there is. The Katy Boardwalk District under construction is another game changer they have going on.
They’re nice. Just don’t have as much going on as Katy. Although Sugar Land does have the Smart Financial Center that brings in big concerts. But Katy has 2 major malls, a Chinatown, a water park, nightlife and I’ll never get tired of saying how good the Venezuelan food there is. The Katy Boardwalk District under construction is another game changer they have going on.
Do you like the less upscale Houston suburbs such as Humble and Pasadena?
When I went to Plano and Frisco, I was amazed at how upscale it was. The Legacy and Frisco Station were booming with high end shops and high rise condos, for one. There were also a lot of luxury cars, and people seemed to be very well-dressed and slim.
The level of image-consciousness was almost as high that of my hometown of Orange County, California. That is quite remarkable, given that DFW is an inland city, while Orange County is coastal, and inland cities tend to be a bit less hip than their coastal counterparts. I don't know, maybe it's all the California transplants flooding Collin County in droves!
By contrast, Houston seems more low key, as do other Gulf Cities. New Orleans may be known for the debauchery of Mardi Gras, but drive across the Causeway and you'll find St. Tammany Parish--a quiet, conservative area that is worlds away from the chaos of New Orleans. St. Tammany Parish is well to do, but it's also quite low key. People weren't as fashionably dressed as they were in SoCal or Plano. Or, for that matter, the suburbs of Sacramento, California.
It seems as if the Gulf Coast has this laid back, down to earth vibe. I haven't been to Florida, but supposedly the Panhandle is the "Redneck Riviera" that stands in stark contrast to status-obsessed Southern Florida.
Dallas has always had a reputation of being a high falutin' and glamourous city full of big spenders, high rollers, millionaires, swimming pools and (some) movie stars. Lots of people like that "upper crust" image, and when they move there, they want "Big D" to maintain that image. One of the best ways to maintain that image is to always dress in a way that screams "money", "success" and "important".
Dallas has always had a reputation of being a high falutin' and glamourous city full of big spenders, high rollers, millionaires, swimming pools and (some) movie stars. Lots of people like that "upper crust" image, and when they move there, they want "Big D" to maintain that image. One of the best ways to maintain that image is to always dress in a way that screams "money", "success" and "important".
A lots of people move to Dallas for other reasons and don't fit that image.
Dallas has always had a reputation of being a high falutin' and glamourous city full of big spenders, high rollers, millionaires, swimming pools and (some) movie stars. Lots of people like that "upper crust" image, and when they move there, they want "Big D" to maintain that image. One of the best ways to maintain that image is to always dress in a way that screams "money", "success" and "important".
The TV show "Dallas", originally airing on CBS from 1978-1991 was a contributing factor to this. However, even before "Dallas" started airing, Dallas had some sort of pretentious reputation. "Dallas" took Dallas pretentiousness to another over level. Dallas was the home of Neiman Marcus, a pretentious high end store long before the first episode of "Dallas" aired. Northpark Center opened in 1965, 13 years before "Dallas".
Prior to living in Dallas and immediately following college, I lived in Phoenix, AZ. Metro Phoenix is very image conscious, especially in the suburb of Scottsdale. Phoenix is a little more down to Earth than Scottsdale, but still self-conscious of presentation to a high degree. In Scottsdale, the pretentiousness was at a high level based on nothing. Scottsdale tried to imitate Beverly Hills on pretentiousness, but it is just really a middle class to upper middle class suburb, and only that way because of high debt loads. At least Dallas' pretentiousness is based on a more solid base of employment within the local economy and on more reasonable personal debt loads. There was a reason why Metro Phoenix, particularly Scottsdale, was Ground Zero in the Real Estate Crash of 2007-2009.
In my early years in Dallas (the early 2010s), there were nights where I was out in Uptown Dallas looking to seduce some women and putting up with some serious attitude problems. I was wondering if I had been transported back to Old Town Scottsdale during the height of the real estate boom in terms of the stuck up female attitudes.
I think my experiences in Phoenix left me well positioned to deal with Dallas' glamorous and pretentious image. Perhaps I gravitate towards these cities because of my personality. I'm not tremendously pretentious. I manage money well. I am enough of a d-bag to keep things interesting and keep women interested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester
Because I am trying to say that I actually don't find Dallas flashy. Collin County is upscale but not flashy compared to California. Flashy compared to the rest of Texas? Sure.
Collin County is to Dallas what Orange County is to Los Angeles.
The image orientation and pretentiousness displays are different in the city than in the suburbs.
In the city, a greater percentage of the population is single and either...A) unattached or B) in a rather transient attachment stage. There's a focus for both men and women on attracting new partners and retaining current partners long enough to see if there should be a ring presentation. Getting to the ring and big wedding is a different motivation than at later stages in life after the ring and the ceremony.
In the suburbs, since there is the veneer of permanence through a greater part of the population being married with kids, the pretentiousness takes on different forms. In the suburbs, you want to have a nicer car and take nicer vacations than the neighbors. You want to send your kids to a more prestigious school than the neighbor. If you're a suburban woman, you want to have nicer breasts (likely enhanced) than the neighbor.
Much of the suburban model is unsustainable and fueled upon consumer debt. As the United States economy has changed from a greater emphasis upon manufacturing and production to professional business services, the basis of getting money has changed. Feminism has brought more women in the labor pool, and with an increased pool of labor, the salary for each individual act of labor has diminished. In white collar office settings, employers in the professional business services realm ask for more and more from employees while paying them less. This encourages the amount of household debt to increase in order to keep up appearances. Additionally, when you have two adults in a household working soul killing white collar jobs, their general happiness diminishes. If they are not disciplined enough to be committed to fitness, which can help marginally with getting through the soul killing job, they will become more obese, which will also contribute to their unhappiness. Two people working soul killing jobs and not nurturing their own relationships will lead to a divorce. The probability of divorce for those who get married is as high as ever.
In both the cities and the suburbs, the main reason for flashiness is the transience of relationships. People either need to attract new relationships or keep current ones alive. Everyone is in hardcore sales mode at all times because few relationships are actually safe. Romantic relationships now are a lot like employment in the modern era, they can end in a moment's notice.
Both Metro Dallas and Metro Los Angeles are more flashy and more pretentious on average than a lot of parts of the country. Due to the warm weather and the transient relationships, there's a need to look good. There's a much higher level of mating competition in Dallas and Los Angeles than what you'd see in Des Moines or Kansas City.
Dallas has always had a reputation of being a high falutin' and glamourous city full of big spenders, high rollers, millionaires, swimming pools and (some) movie stars. Lots of people like that "upper crust" image, and when they move there, they want "Big D" to maintain that image. One of the best ways to maintain that image is to always dress in a way that screams "money", "success" and "important".
I think the "image" and "stereotype" is more regional than nationwide. In my experience, Texans from outside of Dallas have a very one-dimensional, myopic view of the city. It's actually quite silly and says more about them than it does about Dallas. You can easily find neighborhoods in Dallas or encounter local Dallasites that scream (in a stereotypical way) Austin! Houston! San Antonio! Fort Worth! I know that is difficult for non-Dallas Texans to understand, but it's quite possible to have many different types of people and places in a big city. Shocking, I know.
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Katy Boardwalk
