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Old 03-25-2020, 08:07 PM
 
972 posts, read 574,165 times
Reputation: 2419

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The almighty dollar trumps the value of human life for Dan Patrick. So embarrassed to be a Texan after his ridiculous comments.
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Old 03-25-2020, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Denver via Austin
3,647 posts, read 6,956,223 times
Reputation: 4668
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPatel304 View Post
I wasn't aware of that. Still, I think we can all agree that shutting more things down and shutting them down sooner would reduce the number of deaths.



I don't know enough about him to have an opinion about him.
Fun fact, in the Texas constitution the Lieutenant Governor technically has more power than the Governor, and their elections are always during midterms.
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Old 03-25-2020, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Houston
2,899 posts, read 2,363,904 times
Reputation: 2370
Most of you seem to be ducking the issue: that our communities and country will probably have to decide BEFORE THERE IS AN EFFECTIVE VACCINE OR TREATMENT just how much illness and death we are willing to live with in order to restart the economy. Given the characteristics of the virus so far, it's fair to say this level may be much higher than what we've chosen to live with for influenza, and this virus will likely be around permanently. Would that make us bad people to go from 10,000 - 20,000 (or whatever influenza causes) to say 80,000 - 100,000 deaths on an ongoing basis, to avoid complete economic disaster while not overwhelming our health care institutions?

Yes, in theory the economy could rapidly restructure to somehow return to full vitality without excessive human to human contacts, but that seems like magical thinking to me.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:05 AM
 
770 posts, read 397,478 times
Reputation: 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPatel304 View Post
What is your stance on how we should handle the flu? Do we go into lockdown for that too?
DPatel and LocalPlanner, the following article is why we are going into lockdown with Covid-19 versus not going into lockdown with the Influenza virus. "Overwhelming" hospitals does not happen with the Flu / Influenza virus. With Covid-19 having a significantly higher fatality percentage then influenza, this likely will get much worse in total deaths compared to influenza if actions are not taken to proactively limit speed of spread at this point.

Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm hospitals
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/25/healt...als/index.html

Some excerpts from the article:

"To think that we're in New York City and this is happening," he added. "It's like a third-world country type of scenario. It's mind-blowing."

"At first, patients skewed toward the 70-plus age group, but in the past week or so there have been a number of patients younger than 50."

"I don't think they understand the severity of this disease," the doctor said of the younger patients.

"Two weeks ago, life was completely different."

"Public health experts, including US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams, have warned the US could "become Italy," where doctors in hospitals filled with Covid-19 patients have been forced to ration care and choose who gets a ventilator."

"But the US may already be seeing the beginnings of this in some areas, marking a new stage of the nation's outbreak."

- end article excerpts
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:15 AM
 
770 posts, read 397,478 times
Reputation: 1141
Also, Covid-19 is causing permanent lung damage in some people. This does not happen with the Influenza virus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/healt...deo/index.html
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:26 AM
 
510 posts, read 250,531 times
Reputation: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbullsfan View Post
Also, Covid-19 is causing permanent lung damage in some people. This does not happen with the Influenza virus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/healt...deo/index.html
I'm aware that COVID-19 is worse. I'm simply saying that all of us (including myself) are okay choosing the economy over saving lives (to some extent), which is why we don't shut down the economy during flu season.

We could shut down the economy during flu season and save lives, but nobody (including myself) seems to want to do that.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Houston
2,899 posts, read 2,363,904 times
Reputation: 2370
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbullsfan View Post
DPatel and LocalPlanner, the following article is why we are going into lockdown with Covid-19 versus not going into lockdown with the Influenza virus. "Overwhelming" hospitals does not happen with the Flu / Influenza virus. With Covid-19 having a significantly higher fatality percentage then influenza, this likely will get much worse in total deaths compared to influenza if actions are not taken to proactively limit speed of spread at this point.

Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm hospitals
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/25/healt...als/index.html

Some excerpts from the article:

"To think that we're in New York City and this is happening," he added. "It's like a third-world country type of scenario. It's mind-blowing."

"At first, patients skewed toward the 70-plus age group, but in the past week or so there have been a number of patients younger than 50."

"I don't think they understand the severity of this disease," the doctor said of the younger patients.

"Two weeks ago, life was completely different."

"Public health experts, including US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams, have warned the US could "become Italy," where doctors in hospitals filled with Covid-19 patients have been forced to ration care and choose who gets a ventilator."

"But the US may already be seeing the beginnings of this in some areas, marking a new stage of the nation's outbreak."

- end article excerpts
I don't think either of us is asserting that we shouldn't be in lockdown at the moment - it seems like the prudent course of action to me given the limits of the health system. We also both recognize that Covid-19 is NOT influenza and in many respects has considerably worse health implications, and we have both said this multiple times.

However, as I have also said multiple times, I think that once the peak of spread and pressure on hospitals has passed, but before we have a vaccine and effective treatment, the country will likely have to decide to resume with most regular personal activity in order to save the economy and simply live with this new virus killing people like we live with flu killing people (DESPITE having vaccines and treatment), albeit potentially at a much higher fatality level.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:32 AM
 
408 posts, read 425,942 times
Reputation: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPatel304 View Post
The media is also generally pretty quiet about all the deaths that occur each year from the flu, so people are also unaware of the severity of it. Honestly, until COVID19 came up, I was pretty unaware of how many people died from it, and I also was completely unaware of the fact that me getting a flu shot could help slow the spread and potentially save lives.

But back to your point, yes, it isn't something people like to admit, but I would personally want to keep the economy going every flu season instead of shutting it down to save lives. It sounds heartless and awful, but that's just where I stand.

Media actually covers this a LOT. They cover the number of deaths and the spread almost on a daily basis during the thick of the flu season including here in Texas. It's just that everyone is accustomed to the Flu, know what to do when they have it, and likely tune out. Coronovirus is new, spreads fast and there is the fear of the unknown. If this were an every year occurrence with available shots and drugs, it would likely be treated as the seasonal flu. I agree with someone here who mentioned about calculated risks and seasonal flu is a calculated risk that has become a part of our normal life and for all you know Coronavirus might become too in the future if it returns every winter.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:40 AM
 
510 posts, read 250,531 times
Reputation: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwsavemoney View Post
Media actually covers this a LOT. They cover the number of deaths and the spread almost on a daily basis during the thick of the flu season including here in Texas. It's just that everyone is accustomed to the Flu, know what to do when they have it, and likely tune out.
I stand corrected then, and I am definitely one of those people who tune it out..haha.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Denver via Austin
3,647 posts, read 6,956,223 times
Reputation: 4668
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbullsfan View Post
Also, Covid-19 is causing permanent lung damage in some people. This does not happen with the Influenza virus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/healt...deo/index.html
The unknown prognosis of recoveries has always been my retort to callous young people who think this won’t affect them. In addition to permanent lung damage, it’s been observed to attack the central nervous system in some cases.

Polio, a disease that some generations alive today still have PTSD from, was asymptomatic in 70% of cases and “only” had a paralysis rate of 0.5% upon infection. In 25-40% of cases, the virus attacks the nervous system decades after initial infection. Our fight against polio is responsible for many of the modern notions of hygiene and medicine, like intensive care units, physical therapy, and the viability of vaccines. We changed our culture to combat polio.
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