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Old 03-25-2020, 01:22 PM
 
767 posts, read 396,420 times
Reputation: 1136

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
Technically, we face that question every flu season when a new variant circulates, yes?
We take calculated risks every day if that is what you are asking. Things such as, do I drive to work today or do I not for fear of an accident? Do I wash my hands or do I not and risk infection? Do I get the flu shot this year or do I not? Do I stay home when I am sick or do I throw respect of others to the wind and say, oh well, they will manage?

Governments around the world, not just the US, made the calculated risk of issuing "stay at home orders". Some governments acted passively to Covid-19 which we know little about (Italy) and some acted aggressively (South Korea). Extrapolating from that data, which our government most likely did, what did we learn from those two different countries and their vastly different approaches to containing Covid-19 as well as their respective infection rate numbers and in regards to overwhelming each countries healthcare system?
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:27 PM
 
510 posts, read 250,320 times
Reputation: 419
txbullsfan, Your entire post is spot on and you're exactly right. All of us are willing to take some degree of risk that could potentially result in the death of ourselves and other people. Dan Patrick is being a little blunt about what he is saying, but the reality is, is that we've been doing what he is advocating our entire lives. COVID19 has just been a special case and how we proceed weeks/months from now seems uncertain for the entire world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txbullsfan View Post
Do I stay home when I am sick or do I throw respect of others to the wind and say, oh well, they will manage?
You bring up an interesting question. I know, for some, it isn't so easy to call out sick from their job, so a lot of people end up going to work sick and spreading disease to customers/co-workers. I'm guessing there will be way more pressure on companies to actually respect sick leave once this is all said and done.
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Houston
2,899 posts, read 2,362,937 times
Reputation: 2365
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbullsfan View Post
We take calculated risks every day if that is what you are asking. Things such as, do I drive to work today or do I not for fear of an accident? Do I wash my hands or do I not and risk infection? Do I get the flu shot this year or do I not? Do I stay home when I am sick or do I throw respect of others to the wind and say, oh well, they will manage?

Governments around the world, not just the US, made the calculated risk of issuing "stay at home orders". Some governments acted passively to Covid-19 which we know little about (Italy) and some acted aggressively (South Korea). Extrapolating from that data, which our government most likely did, what did we learn from those two different countries and their vastly different approaches to containing Covid-19 as well as their respective infection rate numbers and in regards to overwhelming each countries healthcare system?
Well, I probably wasn't really clear - when I wrote "we", I meant "the government" (which of course, in theory, is us). So, really, the government faces this question every year that brings a new flu strain and any potentially communicable deadly illness - how much to take the amount of personal calculation from individuals and enforce the acceptable level as a "collective" decision, with resulting impacts to the economy and freedoms. For regular flu, the government (us) has decided that reduction of freedoms would be too negatively impactful to save the tens of thousands of lives we do lose each year.
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:53 PM
 
767 posts, read 396,420 times
Reputation: 1136
The fact of the matter is this virus is incredibly contagious and right now shows a significantly higher fatality percentage then the flu. Now, that fatality percentage may be inflated simply because only the sickest are tested while everyone else just toughs it out with milder symptoms but that is speculation at this point and we do not know.

What we also do know is that Covid-19 is not related to the influenza virus (the common flu) but is a form of Coronavirus, which is the same family of viruses as SARS and MERS. Those were terribly fatal diseases.

In addition, what we do know is that a significant number of people will go to work and out in public when sick, with any sickness, despite it being recommended that not do that. Community spread, exposing vulnerable portions of the population and respect for others be damned. A significant number of people have also disregarded the social distancing requirements of Covid-19. This is why governments ordered it to happen, not just recommended it. "Recommending" it was not slicing the bread.

Now, speaking to others and reading threads all throughout this forum, a significant number of non essential employers are requiring their employees to come in and congregate in offices which is completely contradictory to what the experts - the CDC and doctors etc - are saying we should do. We even now have our leadership of the Executive branch saying he would like everyone to get back to work which is again, contradictory to the experts. We even have leaders of Texas saying that the elderly such as himself should risk their lives for the economy / to make a buck.

This country was founded upon the principle of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. Ordering people into a burning building (aka going "back to work" and out in public in an infected country with an unknown disease) for the sake of making a buck violates all three. This mindset of our leadership, which unfortunately does not seem to be rare within a certain party, in my opinion is reprehensible, despicable and ethically wrong. Lets put the fire out in the building (at least reasonably) before ordering people back into it. No one is despensable and that is terrible to even publicly imply. While I am shocked this mentality which seems all to common was publicly stated, I am not surprised it is the way a portion of our population thinks. Anything to make a buck.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:02 PM
 
510 posts, read 250,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txbullsfan View Post
This country was founded upon the principle of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. Ordering people into a burning building (aka going "back to work" and out in public in an infected country with an unknown disease) for the sake of making a buck violates all three.
..which is how we handle the flu.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:10 PM
 
767 posts, read 396,420 times
Reputation: 1136
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPatel304 View Post
..which is how we handle the flu.
You missed the part where the Flu is not related to the Coronavirus and that the flu is showing to be significantly less fatal and contagious then Coronaviruses - SARS, MERS and Covid-19. Again, where would you draw the line?
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Houston
2,899 posts, read 2,362,937 times
Reputation: 2365
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbullsfan View Post
The fact of the matter is this virus is incredibly contagious and right now shows a significantly higher fatality percentage then the flu. Now, that fatality percentage may be inflated simply because only the sickest are tested while everyone else just toughs it out with milder symptoms but that is speculation at this point and we do not know.

What we also do know is that Covid-19 is not related to the influenza virus (the common flu) but is a form of Coronavirus, which is the same family of viruses as SARS and MERS. Those were terribly fatal diseases.

In addition, what we do know is that a significant number of people will go to work and out in public when sick, with any sickness, despite it being recommended that not do that. Community spread, exposing vulnerable portions of the population and respect for others be damned. A significant number of people have also disregarded the social distancing requirements of Covid-19. This is why governments ordered it to happen, not just recommended it. "Recommending" it was not slicing the bread.

Now, speaking to others and reading threads all throughout this forum, a significant number of non essential employers are requiring their employees to come in and congregate in offices which is completely contradictory to what the experts - the CDC and doctors etc - are saying we should do. We even now have our leadership of the Executive branch saying he would like everyone to get back to work which is again, contradictory to the experts. We even have leaders of Texas saying that the elderly such as himself should risk their lives for the economy / to make a buck.

This country was founded upon the principle of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. Ordering people into a burning building (aka going "back to work" and out in public in an infected country with an unknown disease) for the sake of making a buck violates all three. This mindset of our leadership, which unfortunately does not seem to be rare within a certain party, in my opinion is reprehensible, despicable and ethically wrong. Lets put the fire out in the building (at least reasonably) before ordering people back into it. No one is despensable and that is terrible to even publicly imply. While I am shocked this mentality which seems all to common was publicly stated, I am not surprised it is the way a portion of our population thinks. Anything to make a buck.
Look, in the immediate term, major restrictions on freedoms and economic activity may be the better course of action. But at some point, probably LONG before there's a vaccine or effective treatment, a calculation will be made that economic activity and personal enjoyment outweigh the cost in lives. COVID-19 is not the flu, but it will similarly be permanently with us. We WILL make the same calculation that we do with the annual flu, and ultimately have to perpetuate the economy regardless of whether there's an effective vaccine and treatment or not.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:13 PM
 
510 posts, read 250,320 times
Reputation: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbullsfan View Post
You missed the part where the Flu is not related to the Coronavirus and that the flu is showing to be significantly less fatal and contagious then Coronaviruses - SARS, MERS and Covid-19. Again, where would you draw the line?
I didn't miss that part. I get that the flu is less fatal, but it still is fatal, yet we choose to go into work and potentially spread the flu to people who may die from it every year.

I draw the line at the point where the healthcare system is overwhelmed. I accept that people will die every year from the flu and I realize that could be reduced if we shut down the economy, but, personally, I'm not in support of shutting down the country every year to save those lives.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
2,185 posts, read 2,790,250 times
Reputation: 3751
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPatel304 View Post
I didn't miss that part. I get that the flu is less fatal, but it still is fatal, yet we choose to go into work and potentially spread the flu to people who may die from it every year.

I draw the line at the point where the healthcare system is overwhelmed. I accept that people will die every year from the flu and I realize that could be reduced if we shut down the economy, but, personally, I'm not in support of shutting down the country every year to save those lives.
So even if those lives included your family members you would still let them die? and die of something that could have been easily prevented had we locked down? simple yes or no
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:24 PM
Status: "Blasphemer of all Religion" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Houston, TX
2,666 posts, read 1,022,113 times
Reputation: 3614
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPatel304 View Post
I didn't miss that part. I get that the flu is less fatal, but it still is fatal, yet we choose to go into work and potentially spread the flu to people who may die from it every year.

I draw the line at the point where the healthcare system is overwhelmed. I accept that people will die every year from the flu and I realize that could be reduced if we shut down the economy, but, personally, I'm not in support of shutting down the country every year to save those lives.
Ridiculous comparison.

In addition to the flu being less fatal and much older, there is a vaccine and antiviral treatment for the flu. We have none of the above for Coronavirus.
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