Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-28-2021, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
9,754 posts, read 6,387,344 times
Reputation: 6315

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
Austin's poor infrastructure does have impacts (not sure how much on housing prices), but their building restrictions and regulatory process have a much bigger impact on increasing housing prices, when coupled with the high-income job growth they have from the tech industry. They are following the Bay Area playbook - lack of respect for property rights and way too much power given to existing homeowners to have say over development.
Hand and hand. These policies and restrictions are the main reason that Austin lacks them roads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-28-2021, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
8,196 posts, read 5,333,790 times
Reputation: 12027
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag View Post
LocalPlanner is right. Desirability is a big part of Austin’s skyrocketing prices. But the lack of proper infrastructure (I.e. roads) that Austin has and doesn’t build is a huge reason for its prices. Just like natural boundaries have an effect, so do man made boundaries. Point blank, Houston and DFW have very little natural boundaries as well as endless systems of roads and interstates so they’re more prepared for the influx they’re getting.
I never once said restrictions dont also cause price increases. But Austin wouldnt be the most expensive city in Texas if it were not viewed as the most desirable city in Texas by Americans from outside the state. You can have restrictions and insufficient infrastructure and not have runaway cost of living. Just ask Atlanta. It wasnt until Atlanta really cemented its place in the world of entertainment that its cost of living skyrocketed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2021, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
8,196 posts, read 5,333,790 times
Reputation: 12027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Scott View Post
Yes, I am familiar with the housing problems in CA, as my brother lives out there and I go there almost twice a year.


But again...WHO puts in place the restrictive construction requirements and regulations and high taxes? The blue politicians so yes...in the end...blue policies are not good for growth or long term livability by average Americans.


Some talk about a city's "desirability" well, Houston's has got to be the job market and the (somewhat) lower housing costs versus many blue states. What spurs job creation? It surely is not more regulations and restrictions.
I dont know why you think California is the only blue state. The state that has the loosest regulations on anything is a blue one and thats Nevada.

Trying to simplify everything into red and blue leads to many false conclusions and incorrect assumptions. Cost of living is not driven by politics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2021, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,582 posts, read 4,853,398 times
Reputation: 4528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Scott View Post
Yes, but NM is actually a great place to retire, as long as you stay out of the pricey spots like ABQ and Santa Fe. Las Cruces is amazing and I love the weather - no rain and no humidity. As a serious mt biker - I love the landscape and tons of trail options there.


NM has CO type scenery and some winter but not CO prices or touristy crowds and the winter is less severe than CO or other mountain states. El Paso is an hour from Las Cruces and there is plenty of big city things there if I need them.



True, NM is democrat, but those is smaller towns and rural areas are fairly red or they do not seem overly concerned with identity politics in general. There is a strong libertarian "you do your thing, I will do mine" in NM that I get when I am there. I totally agree with this line of thinking. Las Cruces is the second largest city in NM but it feels small and more rural. NM gun laws are pretty loose as well - another appealing feature versus other blue states.



Yes, NM is a high poverty state, but again, I am retiring there and do not need a job, so that is not real important.
I see. I agree that much of NM is really beautiful with great weather. El Paso / Las Cruces seems a pretty underrated place to live in general.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2021, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,819 posts, read 2,117,631 times
Reputation: 2980
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
Austin's poor infrastructure does have impacts (not sure how much on housing prices), but their building restrictions and regulatory process have a much bigger impact on increasing housing prices, when coupled with the high-income job growth they have from the tech industry. They are following the Bay Area playbook - lack of respect for property rights and way too much power given to existing homeowners to have say over development.
The kind of regulations you speak of are about the kind that builders aren't interested in anyway. In Houston there's been more activity on higher end projects than affordable housing. I don't think this kind of NIMBYISM has much to do with the blue/red divide. Every homeowner wants to protect their home value. Do you seriously think the lack of more space to build has less of an impact than housing regulations?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2021, 01:45 PM
 
19,519 posts, read 17,762,064 times
Reputation: 17046
Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below... View Post
I dont know why you think California is the only blue state. The state that has the loosest regulations on anything is a blue one and thats Nevada.

Trying to simplify everything into red and blue leads to many false conclusions and incorrect assumptions. Cost of living is not driven by politics.

Sorry this is going to be a clunky post.....I'm helping a guy move a refrigerator.

With all due respect per larger cities anyway and most states that last part is pretty tough to defend. I mean it's pretty well accepted even among those on the left that spillover costs per left wing initiatives/taxes/fee/regulations have driven large numbers of black Americans and other minorities from many west coast cities. To be blunt if you want to argue that you will not win.


https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion...s/201209300228


https://calmatters.org/projects/cali...lation-exodus/


You can argue Renn has an axe to grind but you can't argue with his numbers.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/bl...it_nosession=1


Further, since the 1970s many black Americans have been leaving places like NYC, Detroit and Chicago for Charlotte, Houston, Dallas and Atlanta. Demographic types call this a reverse migration.

And there are several reasons at respective median incomes the real purchasing power of $1 is less in NY state than Mississippi.....taxes are one.

*A friend makes a recurring joke about Portland.........he says, "when my family moved from Portland to Dallas we cut Portland's back population by 50%."

Finally, it appears spot covid that many black Americans are moving both south and west but avoiding coastal cities.

___________________

You are smart and honest guy. You should spend your next several free-time hours looking into how and why taxes and other government imposed financial burdens become bundled into local prices and how all of that impacts COL adjusted buying power at median income.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2021, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,582 posts, read 4,853,398 times
Reputation: 4528
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
The kind of regulations you speak of are about the kind that builders aren't interested in anyway. In Houston there's been more activity on higher end projects than affordable housing. I don't think this kind of NIMBYISM has much to do with the blue/red divide. Every homeowner wants to protect their home value. Do you seriously think the lack of more space to build has less of an impact than housing regulations?
Lack of space of course has an impact. What do you mean "builders aren't interested in" regulations? Anyone I know who's developed housing in CA can tell you how much they raise home prices beyond what they'd be otherwise.

I wasn't talking about red/blue. Affluent homeowners across the political spectrum have abused the regulatory / permitting process and further enacted terrible regulations and limitations on housing that raise the prices. It's just that in California and Austin (and increasingly places like Plano and Sugar Land), these homeowners became excessively powerful and cowed elected officials and bureaucrats into proposing and implementing these things. Basically existing homeowners in these places now have an entitlement mentality which is utterly counter to the principles of freedom and property rights, let alone free markets, in the U.S. Just because you paid $500,000 for your home, that gives you the right to say your community can't have more housing? How is that acceptable?

Contrary to your assertion, Houston is an example of a place where builders have actually tried to address affordable housing. Why do you think so many are doing 40' and 45' lots (the kind that owners of fancier homes complain about being in their community)? They're trying to reach the first-time buyer market, because they know there's a lot of potential volume there. Ever since the 2014 oil crash, Houston area builders have shifted to a lot more lower-priced product, since the high-income job growth ratcheted back so severely. Post-COVID, there's demand at all price levels, so the upper end of the market has become more active, but the lower end is still a big deal too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2021, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,819 posts, read 2,117,631 times
Reputation: 2980
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post

Contrary to your assertion, Houston is an example of a place where builders have actually tried to address affordable housing. Why do you think so many are doing 40' and 45' lots (the kind that owners of fancier homes complain about being in their community)? They're trying to reach the first-time buyer market, because they know there's a lot of potential volume there. Ever since the 2014 oil crash, Houston area builders have shifted to a lot more lower-priced product, since the high-income job growth ratcheted back so severely. Post-COVID, there's demand at all price levels, so the upper end of the market has become more active, but the lower end is still a big deal too.
Where are those 40' to 45' lots being built? Probably not anywhere within a 40 minute commute. A lot of the coastal cities do not have the space for this kind of homes even that far out. To do the same in the Bay Area you need to build up. Are the people in the Heights enthusiastic about affordable high rise buildings? I don't think so.
I also remember reading an article in the Chronicle about how the lion's share of new home constructions in 2020 were stocks for the upper middle class. I don't think one can honestly expect market forces to create affordable housing for lower income groups just by looking at the data.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2021, 04:20 PM
 
Location: New England
3,186 posts, read 1,670,066 times
Reputation: 8969
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
Somebody always finds something to get offended about and post it on the Internet.
Hate seems to be the only thing in abundence these days.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-28-2021, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,582 posts, read 4,853,398 times
Reputation: 4528
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
Where are those 40' to 45' lots being built? Probably not anywhere within a 40 minute commute. A lot of the coastal cities do not have the space for this kind of homes even that far out. To do the same in the Bay Area you need to build up. Are the people in the Heights enthusiastic about affordable high rise buildings? I don't think so.
I also remember reading an article in the Chronicle about how the lion's share of new home constructions in 2020 were stocks for the upper middle class. I don't think one can honestly expect market forces to create affordable housing for lower income groups just by looking at the data.
The 40' and 45' are being done in primarily developing outer suburban areas, yes. Your 40 minute commute depends on where their job is - in case you haven't noticed, there's lots of jobs in suburban areas, and probably many of them are well under the 40 minute time frame from these new homes.

I don't care if folks in the Heights don't like a high-rise, low priced or not. They shouldn't be able to stop it, at least not with government action. Only private deed restrictions (and even then only those that have been consistently enforced) should be used in this manner.

You are correct - new housing for lower income folks, and new entry-level single family homes under $200,000 (even on 40' lots) cannot be built profitably without subsidies or other intervention.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top