U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-04-2021, 04:52 PM
 
16,152 posts, read 14,664,062 times
Reputation: 14585

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below... View Post
We dont agree on politics much but we do agree here. Thats was Abigail Spanberger who said that and I wish she was the face of the Democratic party.

And yeah that was me too. I voted for Biden to get back to some sort of normal, because Im left of center, and because I really abhor Trump. Hes been a huge disappointment.
A. That is her. The democrats should feature her.

B. We don't always disagree vis a vis politics tho. I voted for Biden as well, DT had to go.......I was pretty JB'd dance left once in office but good grief and we'll leave Afghanistan and the border for later.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-04-2021, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Mars City, TX / France
9,124 posts, read 5,249,039 times
Reputation: 14421
The only constant is change. And that goes for all sides, all situations. Anyone thinking people and places are going to remain fixed are the biggest of fools.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2021, 03:07 AM
 
4,696 posts, read 5,563,172 times
Reputation: 4198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
I’m not buying it. Every time Democrats experience election losses, the blame immediately turns to the far-left elements of the party, as if they hold any significant power. Every President from the Democrats in the last 50 years has been Center or Center-Left. The main movers in the party are Center or Center-Left folks. The party literally blocked Bernie Sanders in favor of Joe Biden over fears he is “too left.” People just see AOC and assume all Democrats are like her. I give the Republicans props in this regard. They are excellent at controlling the political narrative around candidates. Every policy that would be regarded as “far left” has been blocked in the Senate, by ironically moderate Dems. What has been the fruits of these actions, election losses. So I just don't buy that the far left elements are to blame for their troubles, when the moderate elements hold most of the power and sway. Democrats biggest issue is keeping their voting block enthused during non-presidential election years. It’s the issue Obama faced during his presidency. Fear mongering just doesn’t work when the President isn’t on the ballot. The Supreme Court may throw them a life line by overturning Roe V Wade.
Agree

The democrat party does not excite the left. A vote for Biden was more of vote against Trump then it was for Biden.

I strongly disagree with Trump and republican party but at least to there base anyways it's bold new ideas. It seems like they eager and wants to do something about something.

Here's the thing Democrats suppose to be progressive party but American pollical culture poltians rely on donation, and there also lobbying by corporations. This makes the Democrats very centrist. And Republicans knows Democrats aren't going rebuttal. That how Republican can control narrative.

The problem with this is, Lets say your issue is jobs and the economy, Trump idea of blaming illegal and other countries for Jobs going over seas. Democrat could easily take progressive stance and say it the coorapation sending jobs over seas and Trump idea is misleading/racist. But that's not going happen, they just say it racist and never answer give an economical rebuttal.

Things that being label as "Too far left" in US in center left in other Western countries. Like Healthcare US healthcare is expensive compare to other country, most Western European country have a public option. but in US this some how too far left and healthcare suppose to be expensive. This happens because Democrats' are not going to actually champion progressive causes. They being funded in part to that heath industry too. So now something that common in Western countries it's "too far left" in The US.

Biden and Hillary are centrist but yet they still have very little Republican support. Trump had literally record approvable by Republicans going against two centrist. conservative media going paint all democrats as "too far to the left" regardless if they are not. This creates cycle you mention above "AOC" is not that far to the left she's saying nothing that wouldn't be center left in most western countries., And 90% of party is Center or Center-Left, like Bill, Obama, now Biden, etc for decades.

Democrats blaming the left because the centrist in control aren't going to blame themselves. They are not exciting there base.

Honestly I'm starting to think this country about 1/3 of this country is so secretive racist, that people hold views in private that won't actually say in front of minorities. but will go to polls to vote in support of racists ideas. basically A democrat calling Trump or any far right conservative racist is doesn't matter, because they nor there supporters care about it being racist. Democrats are waste there breath.

but what happening now is Republicans are being bold they don't care about controversy, and it's firing up the base. While Democrats are just playing defense to the Republicans controversy. And don't actually give rebuttals.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2021, 07:46 AM
 
17,313 posts, read 23,457,274 times
Reputation: 15799
I'll never understand why the US media keeps on pushing the idea that "people vote with their race"
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2021, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Unplugged from the matrix
4,526 posts, read 2,386,334 times
Reputation: 4762
Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below... View Post
If the Dems should have learned anything from two days ago its that they are pandering too much to the far left/socialist crowd. That works fine in a place like Boston but on state levels it works very poorly.

They have to embrace the moderates much better than they do or watch the GOP cut into their comfort zone. The flip side is that if the GOP goes running back to Trump, they are in the same place. If the GOP runs someone like Glen Youngkin in 24, Biden is toast. If they run Trump again, Biden may be re-elected.

I personally grieve for the fact that weve been forced to choose from such horrible choices and we should hate both political parties for it. Choosing from a truly despicable human scumbag vs. an impotent old man who may not all be there sucked.

How this affects Texas is that if the GOP stays with populism, they will continue to lose the burb but gain more blue collar people. If they go back to the middle, they may keep both. If Dems can embrace the moderates instead of treating them like pariahs, they will make inroads. If they embrace the socialist side, they have to be happy with only having the big cities on the coasts and nothing else.
The Dems should have learned that with the Wendy Davis campaign but they didnt, so I doubt they will moving forward. Many were saying then they were running her like it was a coastal campaign. In fact theyre doubling down on what lost them some of those critical races this week.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2021, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
12,124 posts, read 11,762,187 times
Reputation: 12570
I always get a chuckle when someone says the republican party should “move back to the middle/center”.
The GOP has never moved from the center to the right. In fact it has moved slightly left of center.
It is the democrat party that has moved - from left of center to far left/radical in the past 50-60 years.
The party of JFK would be appalled at the current jackass party.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2021, 09:05 AM
 
1,958 posts, read 642,439 times
Reputation: 2636
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
I always get a chuckle when someone says the republican party should “move back to the middle/center”.
The GOP has never moved from the center to the right. In fact it has moved slightly left of center.
It is the democrat party that has moved - from left of center to far left/radical in the past 50-60 years.
The party of JFK would be appalled at the current jackass party.

If the "center" was SUCH a desirable place.....shouldn't McCain and Romney have won by landslides?


Ditto for Bob Dole?


The fact is, the GOP moderates do not excite ANYONE and the left often praises them, because they like these mushy moderates in charge. The moderates are easy to fight and often do not fight back at all.


So when you hear someone say "I wish we could go back to respectable Republicans like Bush, Romney, etc..." what they REALLY mean is they want GOP members that are wimpy and do not fight back.


There is nothing...zero...zippo appealing about moderate GOP politicians.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2021, 09:45 AM
 
17,313 posts, read 23,457,274 times
Reputation: 15799
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
I always get a chuckle when someone says the republican party should “move back to the middle/center”.
The GOP has never moved from the center to the right. In fact it has moved slightly left of center.
It is the democrat party that has moved - from left of center to far left/radical in the past 50-60 years.
The party of JFK would be appalled at the current jackass party.
Democrats have been trying to push a second "New Deal"
Remember ... from the 1930s when Republicans were the liberal party


Now, everytime somebody proposes a new "New Deal" everybody goes insane
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2021, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
7,368 posts, read 4,037,090 times
Reputation: 10538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Scott View Post
If the "center" was SUCH a desirable place.....shouldn't McCain and Romney have won by landslides?


Ditto for Bob Dole?


The fact is, the GOP moderates do not excite ANYONE and the left often praises them, because they like these mushy moderates in charge. The moderates are easy to fight and often do not fight back at all.


So when you hear someone say "I wish we could go back to respectable Republicans like Bush, Romney, etc..." what they REALLY mean is they want GOP members that are wimpy and do not fight back.


There is nothing...zero...zippo appealing about moderate GOP politicians.
The exact same argument AOC makes for the left.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2021, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
7,368 posts, read 4,037,090 times
Reputation: 10538
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Agree

The democrat party does not excite the left. A vote for Biden was more of vote against Trump then it was for Biden.

I strongly disagree with Trump and republican party but at least to there base anyways it's bold new ideas. It seems like they eager and wants to do something about something.

Here's the thing Democrats suppose to be progressive party but American pollical culture poltians rely on donation, and there also lobbying by corporations. This makes the Democrats very centrist. And Republicans knows Democrats aren't going rebuttal. That how Republican can control narrative.

The problem with this is, Lets say your issue is jobs and the economy, Trump idea of blaming illegal and other countries for Jobs going over seas. Democrat could easily take progressive stance and say it the coorapation sending jobs over seas and Trump idea is misleading/racist. But that's not going happen, they just say it racist and never answer give an economical rebuttal.

Things that being label as "Too far left" in US in center left in other Western countries. Like Healthcare US healthcare is expensive compare to other country, most Western European country have a public option. but in US this some how too far left and healthcare suppose to be expensive. This happens because Democrats' are not going to actually champion progressive causes. They being funded in part to that heath industry too. So now something that common in Western countries it's "too far left" in The US.

Biden and Hillary are centrist but yet they still have very little Republican support. Trump had literally record approvable by Republicans going against two centrist. conservative media going paint all democrats as "too far to the left" regardless if they are not. This creates cycle you mention above "AOC" is not that far to the left she's saying nothing that wouldn't be center left in most western countries., And 90% of party is Center or Center-Left, like Bill, Obama, now Biden, etc for decades.

Democrats blaming the left because the centrist in control aren't going to blame themselves. They are not exciting there base.

Honestly I'm starting to think this country about 1/3 of this country is so secretive racist, that people hold views in private that won't actually say in front of minorities. but will go to polls to vote in support of racists ideas. basically A democrat calling Trump or any far right conservative racist is doesn't matter, because they nor there supporters care about it being racist. Democrats are waste there breath.

but what happening now is Republicans are being bold they don't care about controversy, and it's firing up the base. While Democrats are just playing defense to the Republicans controversy. And don't actually give rebuttals.
I can get on board with some of what youre saying but there are a couple of things that dont really compute.

1) Exciting the base. If we look at the number of votes Terry McAuliffe got in Virginia, he got more votes than any other Democratic candidate to ever win or lose that state. Lower voter turnout due to lack of excitement of the base is a myth. Biden, the uninspiring old man that he is, got more votes than any presidential candidate in the history of this country by a LOT.

2) Not all centrists are the same. Mitt Romney and Joe Biden are uninspiring people regardless of their political views. There are centrists that absolutely could inspire in the same fashion that Trump did. Abigail Spanberger is a good example of that.

3) Selling progressive ideas and conservative/populist ones are not remotely similar. One of the reasons Trumps bold "ideas" were able to gain traction much faster than those by a progressive candidate are because of what they are and human psychology. People like to be told that their problems arent their fault and that there is a greater force making things worse for them and the country. People, as a whole, also do not like change. Therefore, when you are fighting to keep things the same, it is a much easier sell to the public than when you come out wanting to change everything. Bernie Sanders is a very good example of a likable and consistent politician that had progressive ideas and he was tossed aside by most of the American public. The reason isnt that hard to comprehend: he wanted to change a whole slew of things. Human psychology kicked in and so did fear. Fear is the easiest human emotion to evoke and its something that Republicans are very good at using. Democrats have the uphill battle to convince people not to be afraid of change.

A good example of this point is the policing initiative that fell flat in Minneapolis. That was a very bold, very new, very progressive idea and the leaders for that initiative were very charismatic. Yet, the city not only went hard against it, they also voted back in the centrist mayor who opposed it. Minneapolis is very progressive so its not like this failed in a centrist city. Also, the mayoral race in Seattle is evidence of this. That super liberal city chose a guy that wanted to maintain the status quo vs. a democratic socialist. Thats not to say progressives didnt win anywhere (like Boston), but the results this week were a slap in the face to the progressive wing of the Democratic party.

4) Comparisons to other countries arent relevant. How progressive a place like Finland is doesnt matter to Americans because: 1) were way more diverse than they are which leads to a bigger mix of opinions and interests, 2) Were much bigger than they are, 3) They dont have the same government or culture we do. We can only look at what it means to be progressive or conservative to an American.

5) Trump was as popular as he was because he catered to the weaknesses in human psychology. He wasnt afraid to curse, call names, and say overtly racist things. He took the same approach the cable news talking dittoheads take when driving up their ratings: tell people what they want to hear, ignore truth, and when you get called on it be defiant and claim conspiracy. Thats what people WANT to believe and how they want to act.

He made populists and white people feel good about themselves. It would be like if Bill Maher ran for president. No Democrat has ever tried that approach.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2023, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top