Are tolls the only practical way of freeway construction/expansion in Texas? (money, toll road)

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by albert648

Neither do taxes, but at least I can avoid tolls by not using the toll road.

Try crossing all of Houston during rush hour without using a toll road,
it'll take you 2 days


Houston drives to top of list of Texas cities for worst traffic congestion - Feb 2022

The study released by geolocation technology company TomTom, shows the typical Houston driver wasted 46 hours last year due to traffic congestion. Houston’s traffic congestion rate was 20 percent. This means average travel times in jammed-up traffic were 20 percent longer than they were in uncongested traffic.
While those figures alone highlight the drive-me-up-a-wall status of Houston commutes, what’s worse is that the city ranks first in Texas, 16th in the U.S., and 214th in the world for snarled traffic in 2021. The study says Houston’s traffic congestion went up 4 percent compared with 2020 but went down 4 percent compared with pre-pandemic 2019.
On top of that, Houston is home to 10 of the 14 worst trucking bottlenecks in Texas, according to an American Transportation Research Institute ranking released earlier this month. The absolute worst: I-45 at I-69 and U.S. Highway 59. The institute deemed that intersection the third worst trucking bottleneck in the country for 2021.

[albert648]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Try crossing all of Houston during rush hour without using a toll road,
it'll take you 2 days

Try avoiding taxes, you'll land yourself in jail for 2+ years.

[Chi-town]

Conservatives hate paying for projects they will not use. So Texas ..... why not accept tolls in paying for it by usage? Those who pride themselves in less gov. paying for things for the masses in general is to be avoided.

[albert648]

Originally Posted by Chi-town

Conservatives hate paying for projects they will not use. So Texas ..... why not accept tolls in paying for it by usage? Those who pride themselves in less gov. paying for things for the masses in general is to be avoided.

Fine by me. Tolls are a lesser evil than taxes.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Try crossing all of Houston during rush hour without using a toll road,
it'll take you 2 days


Houston drives to top of list of Texas cities for worst traffic congestion - Feb 2022

The study released by geolocation technology company TomTom, shows the typical Houston driver wasted 46 hours last year due to traffic congestion. Houston’s traffic congestion rate was 20 percent. This means average travel times in jammed-up traffic were 20 percent longer than they were in uncongested traffic.
While those figures alone highlight the drive-me-up-a-wall status of Houston commutes, what’s worse is that the city ranks first in Texas, 16th in the U.S., and 214th in the world for snarled traffic in 2021. The study says Houston’s traffic congestion went up 4 percent compared with 2020 but went down 4 percent compared with pre-pandemic 2019.
On top of that, Houston is home to 10 of the 14 worst trucking bottlenecks in Texas, according to an American Transportation Research Institute ranking released earlier this month. The absolute worst: I-45 at I-69 and U.S. Highway 59. The institute deemed that intersection the third worst trucking bottleneck in the country for 2021.

Dang, never thought about it but it really does look like you can't get from one side of Houston to the other without seeing tolls.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by Chi-town

Conservatives hate paying for projects they will not use.

I never drive on country roads
And I don’t see any toll roads outside of the big cities in Texas, except for I-130

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Dopo

I never drive on country roads
And I don’t see any toll roads outside of the big cities in Texas, except for I-130

IMHO Tolls really only make sense where there is enough traffic volume and a strong enough local economy to pay for them. Toll Roads do not always turn a profit and when they don't they end up bought out by the state DOT and taxes end up paying for them anyway. The Chicago Skyway is an example of this, and I also believe TX-130 was also an example of this. There are some exceptions like The Oklahoma Turnpike, The Kansas Turpike, Florida's Turnpike, but each of those offer SERIOUS advantages over the free infrastructure adjacent to them. I think this is a big reason you don't see them in more rural areas, especial in rural areas with weaker economies. They're funded by banks, a banks goal is not to solve congestion or provide alternate routes, their goal is to turn a profit... ...if they don't see opportunity for that, they ain't going to build it.

[Chi-town]

Originally Posted by Dopo

I never drive on country roads
And I don’t see any toll roads outside of the big cities in Texas, except for I-130

Rural Conservatives are fine with paying for their roads outside of more lib cities with their 10+lanes costing multi-millions.

Same with any state basically. Building for all them Northerners and Westerners moving in.... ya'll pay for it. At least they have no income tax $$$ going for em. Texas State debt keeps rising in spite of thousands new people pouring in.

What will happen when newbees coming on down slow? More roads and infrastructure need rebuilding. Something Northern cities have had for decades in rebuilding Expressways etc. they can't really even widen in cities.

Texas state debt rising quick in a boomtime too.

Texas in real time debt clock. While state is booming it still grows like a Northern state.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/state-de...ebt-clock.html

The North had decades of debt issues in slowed growth. Texas state debt rises like theirs too ....while in a booming era for decades now. What happens when it slows like Northern states did? Guess you find a cheaper one....

Well, not so much rural lifetime Texans. To them... Texas is a whole 'nother Country. No place will replace it.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by Chi-town

Rural Conservatives are fine with paying for their roads outside of more lib cities with their 10+lanes costing multi-millions.

Get your facts straight,
Liberal cities (Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio) are the ones that generate most of the money in Texas
And somehow, Texas always has money to build freeways in the country but no money to build them in the cities


https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/20...mic-powerhouse

Economically, too, the Texas Triangle is a powerhouse. The four metropolitan economies had a combined GDP of approximately $1.3 trillion in 2018—about 6.3 percent of the US economy and almost 70 percent of the Texas economy. If the Texas Triangle were a separate country, it would have the fifteenth-largest economy in the world, larger than the economies of Indonesia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, or the Netherlands. And virtually all economic growth in Texas today is occurring in the Triangle.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Dang, never thought about it but it really does look like you can't get from one side of Houston to the other without seeing tolls.

Sure you can. I-45 isn't tolled, 59 isn't tolled, I-10 isn't tolled. There are alternatives to toll roads. Maybe not as attractive as the toll roads, but still there.