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Old 06-23-2022, 02:45 PM
 
208 posts, read 197,283 times
Reputation: 434

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The second amendment “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

Oh Bob, I AGREE with every word of the second amendment. My question for you is who, what or how is this Militia to be a well regulated one.

Oh yes I find the prolific descriptions of the lethal merits of the killing power of various weapons in this thread by gun ‘nuts’ (sorry just cannot think of another word) sickening.

Last edited by Ole Texan; 06-23-2022 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 06-23-2022, 02:53 PM
 
19,521 posts, read 17,753,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Texan View Post
The second amendment “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

Oh Bob, I AGREE with every word of the second amendment. My question for you is who, what or how is this Militia to be a well regulated one.
The idea you are selling was put to bed by SCOTUS years ago.


Thirty minutes spend reading contemporaneous notes, letters and other documents from the BOR ear would do so as well.
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Old 06-23-2022, 04:00 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
6,478 posts, read 7,439,537 times
Reputation: 6816
^^ True, but now "linguistics experts" with technological advancements and access to a library of archives of writings at the time are questioning the term "bear arms" and in what context it was normally used in the 1700's. They found that the term "bear arms" in writings at the time was connected to militia/military 90% of the time.

Not sure that's the last time SCOTUS will review it.

On another note, I always get a kick out of the "defense against tyrannical government" argument, as if a family with a small arsenal of consumer weapons stands a chance against the US government, its police and its military. David Koresh and his camp had a stock pile of weapons and it didn't do him much good fighting the government. I get that people want to preserve the right to bear arms, but don't get delusional thinking you are going to fight off the government.
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Old 06-23-2022, 04:12 PM
 
208 posts, read 197,283 times
Reputation: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTex View Post
6 shots? Why the low capacity? [ok u pick a number] Can own, I'm allowed? [yes u can, read the second amendment]. What a weak position. [your opinion]

Are we changing the constitution too? [not me are you]. (might I remind you that many of the weapons carried by the rebellious Americans during the Revolutionary War were of much higher quality and performance carried by the British Government) [remind all u want, dumb statement has nothing to do with second amendment]. Do you understand the phrase "rights won't be infringed"? [yes]. It was a factor in our winning our independence and setting up the once fine system of government this country enjoyed for about 200 years. [agree]

Required to carry a weapon outside the home? [got to watch those words home/property. Well regulated Militia got to be ready at all times and locations.] Yep, to hell with personal freedoms! I can see me now with my firearm strapped to my side while I sweat like a pig while working in the summer heat on the farm here. [hang it on a post Bob, you do not seem to be very creative, you might not make the cut for the A well regulated Militia] [my opinion]. Preposterous authoritarianism! [your opinion]

And in Israel they carry fully automatic weapons with high capacity magazines. Rifles/carbines! [Yes I know, but there millions more of us in this well regulated Militia]

Let's be clear here: The Second Amendment is in there, very high up on the Bill of Rights (#2), for a reason and it does not give the government the right to "allow" the population to own/possess firearms BUT prevents the government from taking or imposing restrictions on ownership of said firearms ! This is a very important distinction! [oh, yes Bob we are very clear here it is number 2, but I cannot find any where in the constitution where the amendments are in order of importance. I think they are all important].

Now for sure I like the basic principle you put forth of testing for competency in use of firearms (can you load/reload, shoot reasonably well, and maintain your weapon safely). I also think for some firearms like high capacity rifles (>10 rounds capacity) a 21 year old age restriction can be enforced as it is for pistol ownership. And I like the idea of the government encouraging an armed society. You have some decent ideas but many of your stipulations are out of bounds.
[ well Bob I put that in for you and all the other gun….. Just to point out the hypocrisy of some infringement being ok. “…shall not be infringed]. What’s it going to be Bob? Don’t sweat to much.
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Old 06-23-2022, 04:42 PM
 
208 posts, read 197,283 times
Reputation: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
The idea you are selling was put to bed by SCOTUS years ago.


Thirty minutes spend reading contemporaneous notes, letters and other documents from the BOR ear would do so as well.
Not selling anything.
Please share, did the Supreme Court modify the Second Amendment. Copies I have are the same as when ratified December 15, 1791.
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:09 PM
 
Location: USA
4,426 posts, read 5,303,590 times
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Background checks are fine only if the community is going to act like one. Time after time after time we hear the same thing, "they were violent before and typically a loaner".

Checking "mental health" get tricky unless they had a stint in a facility.

No one is solving anything in this thread nor is chanting on the steps of the Supreme Court.

Good luck.
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:36 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 2,943,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuero View Post
Sounds like the police could have prevented the mass shooting, if they had done their job.
Every day there is a new revelation that comes out about this. The cops failed so hard here. I am surprised the good people of Uvalde haven't forced them out of town.
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:37 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 2,943,562 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by malcorub16 View Post
David Koresh and his camp had a stock pile of weapons and it didn't do him much good fighting the government. I get that people want to preserve the right to bear arms, but don't get delusional thinking you are going to fight off the government.
Vietnam did a pretty damn good job it.

A much better comparison than a bunch of branch davidians IMO.
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:46 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
6,478 posts, read 7,439,537 times
Reputation: 6816
^ David Koresh probably even had fully automatic weapons as they had just been banned a few years earlier. Big difference between the Davidians and Vietnam is that the Vietnam Conflict was on unfamiliar foreign soil against a unified force with an actual military that didn't follow any rules of engagement and who had no historical allegiance whatsoever to the US.

Unifying that many Americans to stand up in arms against the US military would be next to impossible and if accomplished, semi automatic rifles and handguns aren't going to make much of a difference against our military, just ask Al Queda how it went for them. Fighting against a 'tyrannical US govt" is basically a death wish. Any type of insurgence would get shut down by the govt as terrorism before plans to mobilize it would even come to fruition.
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:58 PM
 
28,574 posts, read 18,589,953 times
Reputation: 30812
Quote:
Originally Posted by supfromthesite View Post
Vietnam did a pretty damn good job it.

A much better comparison than a bunch of branch davidians IMO.
Vietnam is no example. Vietnam was a country 'way over there that had the ample support of a third party power. They knew all along that all they had to do was hold out until the foreign oppressor got bored and left.

That would not be the case in the US. There wouldn't be any outside support, and the fight is not with a foreign oppressor that's going to get bored and go home.
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