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Old 10-28-2022, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,099 posts, read 4,005,425 times
Reputation: 4086
Also, economists consider petrochem to be "basic industry" (as opposed to non-basic) - meaning it brings in outside investment and wealth to a community vs. just extracting or recirculating local wealth. Are you saying they're incorrect because people don't travel to see chemical plants?
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Old 10-28-2022, 01:13 PM
 
17,314 posts, read 23,460,918 times
Reputation: 15804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainwreck20 View Post
[Gambling legalized]

Woo whoo! Look at all this money the state is making.

[5 years pass]

Why has homelessness gotten so much worse...?
Thankfully casinos are illegal in Texas
otherwise we would have homeless people in our cities
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Old 10-28-2022, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
8,071 posts, read 4,508,833 times
Reputation: 4980
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
Yes, the petrochem employees in Port Arthur (and Baytown) live outside those cities (in Nederland, Mont Belvieu etc.). So?

Are you saying that your average drink server, food server, food prep worker, housekeeping worker, security guard - which in total make up a sizable share or quite likely the majority of employees at hotels and casinos - mostly make over $75K? Because every wage statistic I see for the hospitality industry shows that it absolutely not true - it is easily the lowest wage industry sector. Even general managers at limited service hotels often make less than $50K. You're claiming that your envisioned casinos would somehow be different?

Tourism does bring in outside revenue, but as you yourself admit, the extent of that "outsideness" goes down the more prevalent casinos are. A casino in Galveston would bring in spending from elsewhere in Texas - if there's not also a bunch of casinos elsewhere in Texas.
To answer your question directly, bartenders can ABSOLUTELY make 75 grand a year. Dealers can make 6 figures without trying. I’m supposing we are talking about a full service high end casino like the golden nugget or Lauberge in lake Charles. And both have lower salaries. And both have a lot of contract workers that fill in many of those lower salaries jobs. And the amount of management, directing, auditing, IT, etc jobs at casinos is MUCH higher then you think.

Again, I suppose you’re talking about a FULL SERVICE high end casino like GNLC. Were you talking about something smaller like the coushatta in Kinder, LA, then that would be a different story

From the sounds of it, you’re familiar with the petrochem environment and not the high end casino environment.

Anyway, another economic plus that has neither to do with salaries nor tourism, we still haven’t mentioned the ability to text gambling money. If the casino doesn’t provide anyone with a good wage (which isn’t true), it does the owner. Casino gambling is like a gold mind in terms of profits. Governments can and do tax the heck out of casinos because they can afford it.
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Old 10-28-2022, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,099 posts, read 4,005,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag View Post
To answer your question directly, bartenders can ABSOLUTELY make 75 grand a year. Dealers can make 6 figures without trying. I’m supposing we are talking about a full service high end casino like the golden nugget or Lauberge in lake Charles. And both have lower salaries. And both have a lot of contract workers that fill in many of those lower salaries jobs. And the amount of management, directing, auditing, IT, etc jobs at casinos is MUCH higher then you think.

Again, I suppose you’re talking about a FULL SERVICE high end casino like GNLC. Were you talking about something smaller like the coushatta in Kinder, LA, then that would be a different story

From the sounds of it, you’re familiar with the petrochem environment and not the high end casino environment.

Anyway, another economic plus that has neither to do with salaries nor tourism, we still haven’t mentioned the ability to text gambling money. If the casino doesn’t provide anyone with a good wage (which isn’t true), it does the owner. Casino gambling is like a gold mind in terms of profits. Governments can and do tax the heck out of casinos because they can afford it.
I'll admit to being less familiar with "high end" casino environments than more everyday moderate ones. But I have to think that in addition to whatever higher-income jobs might be present, there's whole lotta low-mod wage jobs in addition to those. It's not like hotel housekeeping workers and kitchen staff are going to make $75K just because the property is higher-end and full-service.

I did mention the taxing argument in my post and agree with you - I guess you missed that?
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Old 10-28-2022, 01:54 PM
 
964 posts, read 619,037 times
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That would be cool if they had 1-3 in Galveston/Bolivar
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Old 10-28-2022, 02:11 PM
 
6,417 posts, read 1,617,601 times
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Casinos should absolutely be legal. If you don't like gambling, don't go.
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Old 10-28-2022, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
8,071 posts, read 4,508,833 times
Reputation: 4980
One relevant thing to note. I highly doubt that if casinos do get legalized, they will do land based. But if they did, Fertitta is building a Post Oak Casino on the Vegas strip. He has the Post Oak hotel in Houston. Having a major casino brand on the strip would be great for marketing one in Texas with the same brand.
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Old 10-28-2022, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
8,071 posts, read 4,508,833 times
Reputation: 4980
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
I'll admit to being less familiar with "high end" casino environments than more everyday moderate ones. But I have to think that in addition to whatever higher-income jobs might be present, there's whole lotta low-mod wage jobs in addition to those. It's not like hotel housekeeping workers and kitchen staff are going to make $75K just because the property is higher-end and full-service.

I did mention the taxing argument in my post and agree with you - I guess you missed that?
But what effect do low salary jobs of one the high salary ones? Low salary jobs are going to exist regardless of if they’re in a casino property or in grocery stores or fast food joints. Why is them coexisting a problem? (Which also happens in your beloved petro Chems). By mentioning port Arthur, I was just playing your game. You mentioned one place that’s suffering out of many nationwide casino towns so I did the same. AC and PA obviously aren’t representations of the industry as a whole

Anyway, those jobs are generally outsource to the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Haiti, Thailand, etc so it’s a mute point anyway.
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Old 10-28-2022, 03:38 PM
 
5,672 posts, read 12,903,186 times
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I would love for casinos to come to Texas but fear politicians and lobbyist would ruin the process. The tax money would never be spent as promised and politicians would be lining their pockets.
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Old 10-28-2022, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,099 posts, read 4,005,425 times
Reputation: 4086
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag View Post
But what effect do low salary jobs of one the high salary ones? Low salary jobs are going to exist regardless of if they’re in a casino property or in grocery stores or fast food joints. Why is them coexisting a problem? (Which also happens in your beloved petro Chems). By mentioning port Arthur, I was just playing your game. You mentioned one place that’s suffering out of many nationwide casino towns so I did the same. AC and PA obviously aren’t representations of the industry as a whole

Anyway, those jobs are generally outsource to the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Haiti, Thailand, etc so it’s a mute point anyway.
No, petrochem facilities don't have a lot of low-wage jobs on site. Even the outside contractors are generally at least middle-wage; nobody works there that doesn't have some sort of post-HS education / training that boosts their pay. The knock against petrochem is that the overall job count isn't what it used to be, due mainly to automation - low job count relative to capital investment (though a large plant may still have over 100 jobs and really giant facilities have a lot more than that).

I was talking about casinos as an economic development strategy. To me, it's similar to retail. You get tax revenue, maybe some outside spending, some number of middle to higher wage jobs, and a bunch of jobs that don't pay much and don't have much advancement potential. Now, if it's a community with high unemployment, a low wage job is better than no job. But does a casino truly provide a foundation for a community to advance itself economically? I struggle to identify a place where that's happened, other than Las Vegas, which took decades to get real employment outside of hospitality (and where less expensive housing and regulation / taxes than SoCal is probably as much an economic driver as anything). Sure, LV, AC, and native reservations have more tax dollars than previously - perhaps wise use of that resource can lead to other economic development. What's Biloxi doing economically, outside of the casino? (I'm ignorant on Biloxi, so maybe it's a good counterexample.)
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