Houston vs. Dallas (San Antonio, Austin, Spring: institutes, 2014, apartment)

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by Meow23

250,000? that's smaller than the population of most of surrounding cities in DFW

Exactly.. And this guy thinks Houston shouldn't of built a port or refineries just so those 250k visitors to the San jacinto monument don't have to look at them. How ridiculous.

[JJG]

Originally Posted by Meow23

250,000? that's smaller than the population of most of surrounding cities in DFW

...most?

Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex

^^^ I only count 4, there.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by majicdonjuan

While I agree with most of this and that DFW is certainly not a regional hub, allow me to add a few more things to your post above.

DFW-Amsterdam is seasonal and it's a question mark whether it will return for the summer, especially with all of the Middle East carriers planning DFW.

Unless you have some inside info, my understanding is that DFW-PEK isn't official yet because the slots that AA requested have not been secured. If AA gets it's planned slots then I expect this route to be flown. If it does not (and good slot allocations at PEK are notoriously difficult to get) then it may be dropped until such time as better slots can be obtained. I still expect this route to get the green light with that said.

You left off IAH-SVG as well.

And another point to be made is this - IAH has a lot more international origin/destination demand than DFW. Significantly more. That's why IAH has nearly double the number of international flag carriers than DFW (17 to 12).

DFW has the extra domestic traffic primarily due to the critical mass of AA's superhub (which is enabled by the location of DFW). The international flight expansion going on now - those flights are going to primarily fill up with low-yield connections.

IAH, on the other hand, has legendary front cabin demand that, to certain international markets, is amongst the highest in the industry and the airport as a whole has the extra international traffic primarily because of demand. IAH was as of 2012 the highest yielding hub airport in the country (I'd have to look up more recent data). AA picked growing DFW over trying to grow ORD (a good choice in my opinion since they are the clear second banana at ORD and the airport is constrained). UA picked growing ORD over IAH (and arguable choice since ORD is the bigger market and UA is the carrier with the most Chicago market share, but more room to grow and faster growing at IAH). So the international flags came in and picked up traffic where UA wouldn't. DFW operates differently, even the head of the airport said that whenever they want to attract a new route they try to convince AA to fly it first. HAS doesn't care who flies a new route.

By the way if you also add Mexico, Canada, and the Caribbean, IAH's lead in international destinations significantly increases. Even without Mexico you left off Bonaire, Port of Spain, Quito, Aruba (seasonal) and likely others from IAH's list. And then there's Mexico, which further grows the gap (and I've never understood why Mexican international traffic always gets left out of these conversations - it's international.) The gap is a bit bigger than you're giving credit for.

Houston has long been and will continue to be a larger international destination than DFW for a variety of reasons, most of which correspond to why DFW is a generally larger domestic destination.

I did forget Stavanger. Forgive me for that one.

Yes you are correct regarding DFW-Beijing. The slots have been requested and approved by the US government. They are still waiting on the Chinese government.

I dont disagree with most of what youre saying. I like the stats to speak for themselves. In 2013:

International O&D:
IAH: 4.1 million annual passengers
DFW: 2.9 million annual passengers

FYI, Austin and San Antonio are in the 500-600k range.

Domestic O&D:
DFW and DAL: 25 million annual passengers
IAH and HOU: 17.5 million annual passengers

Never once did I imply that DFW was more international than IAH, but it certainly isnt a regional hub. No way, no how. An example of regional hubs would be Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Charlotte, and Denver. Their global portfolios as well as their international O&D's are far smaller than DFW and IAH.

BTW, DFW has 13 international airlines. Thats not as many as IAH, but its more than cities like Seattle, Atlanta, and Philadelphia. Its not exactly as if were left without choices.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

Its called the "Medical Center District ". No its nowhere near as big as TMC but Dallas is well equipped with good hospitals.

Exactly! UT Southwestern's new William P. Clements Jr. University Hospital is opening in November and The New Parkland Memorial Hospital is opening next year. These new facilities will make healthcare in Dallas even better.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

Exactly! UT Southwestern's new William P. Clements Jr. University Hospital is opening in November and The New Parkland Memorial Hospital is opening next year. These new facilities will make healthcare in Dallas even better.

You guys act as if a number of health care institutions around the Texas medical center aren't currently spending hundreds of millions of dollars renovating facilities and building expansions to their master plans...

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

Its called the "Medical Center District ". No its nowhere near as big as TMC but Dallas is well equipped with good hospitals.

Originally Posted by Dallaz

Exactly! UT Southwestern's new William P. Clements Jr. University Hospital is opening in November and The New Parkland Memorial Hospital is opening next year. These new facilities will make healthcare in Dallas even better.

There's nothing in Dallas that compares or even comes close to comparing to the Texas Medical Center in Houston. Number of hospitals, number of beds, level of critical care, number of doctors, amount of research... even parking spots.

Let's just not even talk about this anymore in this thread, it's not even worth comparing. You guys are throwing out names of Hospitals and we're talking about the largest medical center on the planet. The Texas Medical Center is the eighth-largest business district in the country after Philadelphia and Seattle.

Aside from the medical aspects of it the TMC is also world renown for it's sheer size and the mechanics behind it. The TMC is the home of the largest chilled water facility on the planet, that's used to keep the 7.2 MILLION visitors a year cool and comfortable.

Dallas has some good hospitals just like Honda makes some good cars, we don't compare the Honda accord to the BMW 7 series do we? No we don't.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow

There's nothing in Dallas that compares or even comes close to comparing to the Texas Medical Center in Houston. Number of hospitals, number of beds, level of critical care, number of doctors, amount of research... even parking spots.

Let's just not even talk about this anymore in this thread, it's not even worth comparing. You guys are throwing out names of Hospitals and we're talking about the largest medical center on the planet. The Texas Medical Center is the eighth-largest business district in the country after Philadelphia and Seattle.

Aside from the medical aspects of it the TMC is also world renown for it's sheer size and the mechanics behind it. The TMC is the home of the largest chilled water facility on the planet, that's used to keep the 7.2 MILLION visitors a year cool and comfortable.

Dallas has some good hospitals just like Honda makes some good cars, we don't compare the Honda accord to the BMW 7 series do we? No we don't.

When did I compare TMC to Dallas' SWMD? I said Dallas has new state of the art hospitals opening soon....

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

You guys act as if a number of health care institutions around the Texas medical center aren't currently spending hundreds of millions of dollars renovating facilities and building expansions to their master plans...

I NEVER said they weren't!

[Dallaz]

BTW there's a new Skyhouse planned for the Oak Lawn section of Dallas.

[majicdonjuan]

Originally Posted by peterlemonjello

Ok, a few things should be pointed out.

Again, I work in the air industry and Im just going to let the numbers talk.

First, lets look at total number of international passengers in 2012:

IAH: 8.5 million
DFW: 5.8 million

Ok, now lets look at number of international passengers O&D passengers from 2013. O&D represents passengers going to or coming from DFW and IAH. These do NOT count connections:

IAH: 4.1 million
DFW: 2.9 million

Total number of international destinations served minus Mexico:

IAH: 47
DFW: 42

Total number of domestic destinations:


IAH: 93
DFW: 142

Total number of destinations in Mexico:

IAH: 35
DFW: 18

The numbers speak for themselves. IAH is more international, however DFW is quite global. The biggest difference in destination count is Mexico and Latin America. Thats it and thats all. As to why the discrepancy in passengers, its because of frequency. DFW-Guatemala City is a daily flight for example and IAH-Guatemala City is 3x daily. IAH-San Salvador is 4x daily and DFW-San Salvador is 10 weekly flights.

Total number of international destinations served minus Mexico:

IAH - 47 (2 destinations seasonal, AUA and NAS)
DFW - 37 (6 destinations seasonal, AMS, GIG, LIR, PUJ, GCM, and PLS)

Bigger difference than indicated.

Total number of domestic destinations:

IAH: 113 (12 seasonal)
DFW:145 (5 seasonal)

Smaller difference than indicated.