Houston vs. Dallas (Fort Worth, Plano, Irving: bankruptcy, to live in, costs)

[Spade]

Originally Posted by mpope409

That was not the point we were arguing. We were arguing whether or not New York was a city that had all of its skyline in one area. And if memory serves me correctly, the majority of Houston's high rises are located downtown.

And the answer to that is yes. New York does have it's skyline in one area. The little cluster in Brooklyn is irrelevant compared to the size and magnitude of skyline in Manhattan. I believe that building I showed in Queens stands by itself. All of New York's business, finance, headquarters are located in Manhattan. If they all aren't, most of them are.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

First of all, let's stop talking about the Museum Tower like its already built. It's still in the proposed stage. It may or may not happen. Houston's Discovery Tower is in the proposal stage just like Dallas's museum tower. Plus, From what i've heard, Dallas already has an overbuilt market and might not be able to support the amount of money the Museum Tower might be charging..

That's another advantage that Houston. Houston's office vacancy rate is looking healthier everyday which will makes it the more likely candidate to get another tower. Dallas just keeps building which is actually causing the percentage rate of Office Vacancy rates to increase.

I thought the Museum Tower was actually approved now.

But for the Office Vacancy numbers. That will surely come down because Dallas is converting old empty office buildings into condos. It's just that they will not count them as residential units until the building actually opens up as a residential unit. Until then, they will count as office space. As soon as all the converted buildings in downtown becomes residential, I bet the office vacancy numbers for Dallas become respectable.

That said, I do think Dallas is building toooo many of these luxurious high pricing condos. The Ritz, Mandarin, Stoneleigh and more. I wonder if Dallas can support it. If they somehow can, more power to them.

[Guerilla]

They are overcharging! Seriously. If Dallas can support it, then I will be amazed. Also, Houston doesn't even need to convert old office space into residential for vacancy rates to come down. Houston's Downtown office space is Dallas Downtown and Las Colinas put together, yet it has lower vacancy rates. I think that is amazing. It was at 8% last I checked. Dallas Downtown was at 19%.

[blockbuster]

Um, actually yeah.

Since it's up to interpretation, let's agree to disagree.

Anyway. Like I said. That's your opinion, but it's not a fact. Now, talking about the truth about Dallas and Fort Worth, that's laying down the facts. You act as if I'm blind to Houston's many many flaws.

This opinion is a fairly accurate one, since houston's size as a city is usually fed with a positive tone.

This is what you originally said: IF." Dallas is still into sharing everything with its partner-in-crime: Fort Worth, so Houston will probably always be the bigger city. Period

You basically implied that dallas shares many of its stats with fort worth and is hence the reason why dallas is what it is.

I then said: since when does bigger = better? If you've read the past few posts in this thread, you'd know why this question poses difficult in the context of this "dallas vs. houston" thread.

A city doesn't necessarily have to be a big one to be important or better. That was essentially my point. Only places like New York are undeniably more important because of their sizes. A city like Dallas and Houston have huge differences with houston being the bigger city, but that doesn't stop dallas from surpassing houston in several areas.

What in the world does that have to do with what we were talking about?

I never really digressed, since this is what my recent posts were reffering to:

What you don't understand however, is that Dallas is its own city,that doesn't plan on adding buildings for the sake of competition. It obviously doesn't require a port or more buildings to surpass houston in certain aspects.

and: Wait a minute..So the port offers no great benefit to houston? As opposed to the many statements i have seen regarding the" blessing" of an ocean/port you're suggesting that the landlocked city limits of houton are doing most of the work and deserve the most credit for its prosperity. Just as the landlocked DFW metro is prospering without the aforementioned.

If you would look closely, you see bodies of water running through the city (thus, the old Allen's Landing original port...birthplace of Houston). I never said all of the port was located in the city. I said much of it.

I see, so if i was to look at a satellite image i would see a body of water extending all the way to the houston metro? Makes sense, as wiki simply offers undetailed geographic representations.

I didn't mean disputed literally. I meant that I'm sure you can find other sites with different rankings.

This one though seems the best to use as an informational source. (IMO)

[mpope409]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

If so why does Dallas have a Federal Reserve Bank which rules Houston (which has no such bank) and the entire region.

Beats me. But it doesn't disprove my point.

[mpope409]

Originally Posted by Spade

And the answer to that is yes. New York does have it's skyline in one area. The little cluster in Brooklyn is irrelevant compared to the size and magnitude of skyline in Manhattan. I believe that building I showed in Queens stands by itself. All of New York's business, finance, headquarters are located in Manhattan. If they all aren't, most of them are.

Well, one could make the same argument about Houston. I mean, Uptown isn't even a CBD.

[mpope409]

Originally Posted by blockbuster

Since it's up to interpretation, let's agree to disagree.

Lets.

This opinion is a fairly accurate one, since houston's size as a city is usually fed with a positive tone.

In order for this opinion to be accurate, you would have to know exactly what I am thinking, which you do not, so you should probably quit while you're ahead.

This is what you originally said: IF." Dallas is still into sharing everything with its partner-in-crime: Fort Worth, so Houston will probably always be the bigger city. Period

Now, what part of this says bigger is better?

A city doesn't necessarily have to be a big one to be important or better.

Honey, you're preaching to the choir here.

A city like Dallas and Houston have huge differences with houston being the bigger city, but that doesn't stop dallas from surpassing houston in several areas.

Few areas. Do I think Houston is the better city? Of course, but it has nothing to do with its population or area size.

I never really digressed, since this is what my recent posts were reffering to

You digressed better than I ever could. In trying to sound smart, you're making no sense. So again...quit. This little quote below isn't even where you fell off topic.

What you don't understand however, is that Dallas is its own city,that doesn't plan on adding buildings for the sake of competition. It obviously doesn't require a port or more buildings to surpass houston in certain aspects.

and: Wait a minute..So the port offers no great benefit to houston? As opposed to the many statements i have seen regarding the" blessing" of an ocean/port you're suggesting that the landlocked city limits of houton are doing most of the work and deserve the most credit for its prosperity. Just as the landlocked DFW metro is prospering without the aforementioned.

****************

I see, so if i was to look at a satellite image i would see a body of water extending all the way to the houston metro? Makes sense, as wiki simply offers undetailed geographic representations.

Wow. So now I'm a liar??

[Guerilla]

^^Ahahaha, nice one. I think just about everyone knows Galveston Bay is IN the Houston metro. A natural piece of water.

[Lakewooder]

Natural body of water, but how many unnatural poisons have been dumped in it?

[metroplex2003]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

If so why does Dallas have a Federal Reserve Bank which rules Houston (which has no such bank) and the entire region.

Dallas is also the largest banking center in the southwest.

It's home to worldwide companies such as American, Exxon Mobil, the North American HQ of Nokia, Pizza Hut, Seven Eleven, Frito Lay, Cadbury Schwepps, Texas Instruments, etc.

Dallas and Houston are both important in the world...just different focuses. Dallas is strong in banking and IT. Sorry, it' sjust the case. I banking is bigger in Dallas as well. Houston medical industry is bigger, though to put down Dallas' medical industry is a bit of a stretch, as Dallas is home to UTSW and Baylor Univ Med Center, which offer their strenghths as well: For example, the man who came up with the clinical application of the anion gap is out of Baylor. Also the man who invented go-lytely. world's expert on lipids is at UTSW, so is the diabetes guru. Houston has a great rheumatology program and also obviously a great cancer center.
And yes, it's the largest med center in the world.

But both economies have their focuses. DFW has a lot more into retail HQ than Houston. THat's why common names like Blockbuster, Pizza Hut, Seven Eleven, Radio Shack, Pier 1 imports...they're all from Dallas.

Houston has the oil, med center, etc.

HOuston has more international consulars, yes that is true.
But again, for those comparing this dallas is smaller than houston thing...I again have to emphasize the importance of thinking regionally instead of city proper. City propers for the most part do not tell the story of the whole area. St. Louis only has a scant 340-350,000 people in its city limts. Atlanta, only 483,000 people. So enough of the Houston is bigger than Dallas and that makes all the difference in the world.

In terms of Amenities, both cities are roughly similar. Houston does have more international presence in their population, but Dallas' international crowd I believe is growing at a faster rate. American, though hasnt won any awards, offers more connections than Continental, and more frequency of flights and options. It's the largest carrier in the US and the World. And that matters to people who have time intensive issues...for the leisurly travelers not so much...in which time is not as much of a commodity.

Dallas is not a second fiddle city. It's stands tall by itself without Houston or with Houston. It has a diversified economy, it has been #2 or #1 for several years now with Chicago in Corporate relocations (this was out of a business journal I read a/b 1/2 year ago), and just think, it was Boeing who was deciding b/t Chicago and Dallas, Houston was not in the finalist. So DFW is a place to be reckoned with, I dont think it's fair to call it second fiddle...it's its own stand alone multipolar metropolis that offers a great quality of living with different flavors to choose from: Western flavor in Ft. Worth, Urban sophistication in Dallas, and nice interesting suburbs to the north and in between. I has great air access as it's headquarters to both American and Southwest, a great rail system that is booming, great housing, a diversified economy that hums along, and it's the 4th largest MSA in the country. To say that's it's a nothing city is a bit of a stretch to me.