The police no longer fight crime. (Howe: violent crime, gangs, licensed)

[TexasHorseLady]

That's one of my favorite quotes and I use it often. However, I don't think that it justifies speeding or violation of other such laws. I'm actually embarrassed that you would use it for such.

If you don't agree with the speeding laws, work to get them changed. If you're successful, good for you. If you're not, then live with it - don't whine if the police enforce the laws.

By the way, I'm a Texan, four generations back through all four grandparents. I definitely don't believe in Nanny states, but it's also a very Texan attitude to take responsibility for the consequences of your own actions and not to whine and blame it all on someone else when you get caught by them. That attitude, in fact, is caused in part by nanny state attitudes where personal responsibility doesn't exist and everything is legislated.

Traffic laws don't fall into that category, as they are clearly for the safety of the public in general.

[TexasTheKid]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

That's one of my favorite quotes and I use it often. However, I don't think that it justifies speeding or violation of other such laws. I'm actually embarrassed that you would use it for such.

If you don't agree with the speeding laws, work to get them changed. If you're successful, good for you. If you're not, then live with it - don't whine if the police enforce the laws.

By the way, I'm a Texan, four generations back through all four grandparents. I definitely don't believe in Nanny states, but it's also a very Texan attitude to take responsibility for the consequences of your own actions and not to whine and blame it all on someone else when you get caught by them. That attitude, in fact, is caused in part by nanny state attitudes where personal responsibility doesn't exist and everything is legislated.

Traffic laws don't fall into that category, as they are clearly for the safety of the public in general.

I'm not using the quote to justify speeding or the violation of other such laws. I'm using it to justify not hiring too many cops that either necessarily become tax burdens or revenue generators because it makes us feels safer. Let me be completely clear on a couple things here. I am not opposed to having cops who protect our safety. I am not opposed to cops generating revenue. I am opposed to having cops whose primary function is to generate revenue for the government and not to protect our safety. Safety should be job one. Generating revenue should be a nice little side benefit to safety, but it should absolutely not, nor should it ever be, the job of the police to generate revenue first and protect our safety second. I've said this several times before.

Corruption is commonplace when cops don't understand their primary function in society.

[TexasHorseLady]

You do realize that speeding (and other traffic law violations) is a threat to our safety, no matter how well you may think (justifiably or otherwise) that you can "handle" it? After all, even if you're right, there are hundreds, thousands of folks on the road with you that can't, and between the two of you you could take out a few more.

I agree that generating revenue shouldn't be the primary job; however, it IS nice when the violation pays for itself.

[TexasTheKid]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

You do realize that speeding (and other traffic law violations) is a threat to our safety, no matter how well you may think (justifiably or otherwise) that you can "handle" it? After all, even if you're right, there are hundreds, thousands of folks on the road with you that can't, and between the two of you you could take out a few more.

I agree that generating revenue shouldn't be the primary job; however, it IS nice when the violation pays for itself.

There are a ton of things that are threats to our safety. We don't outlaw everything that can possibly harm us for the simple reason that almost everything can do us harm if not properly performed. The differences in our opinions seem to be that I'm willing to take more risk with the actions of my fellow citizens than with the police whereas you're in the other camp. Besides, having police on every corner may make us momentarily safer, but power corrupts, and those police will eventually turn against us.

[Houston3]

Originally Posted by TexasTheKid

There are a ton of things that are threats to our safety. We don't outlaw everything that can possibly harm us for the simple reason that almost everything can do us harm if not properly performed. The differences in our opinions seem to be that I'm willing to take more risk with the actions of my fellow citizens than with the police whereas you're in the other camp. Besides, having police on every corner may make us momentarily safer, but power corrupts, and those police will eventually turn against us.

"but power corrupts, and those police will eventually turn against us"

That is what this is for....
Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by TexasTheKid

We don't outlaw everything that can possibly harm us for the simple reason that almost everything can do us harm if not properly performed. The differences in our opinions seem to be that I'm willing to take more risk with the actions of my fellow citizens than with the police whereas you're in the other camp.

The thing here is, you're not just making that decision for yourself, you'ore willing to take more risk for your fellow citizens with something that is much more common, injury or death due to autombile accidents, than abuse of police power.

There are ways to deal with laws that you do not agree with that do not include breaking them and then making excuses and saying, "it's not my fault" (shades of Belushi in the underground passageway in Blues Brothers, facing Princess Leia with a gun). That do not blame the police for enforcing traffic laws.

Does traffic enforcement make money that helps pay for having the traffic police out there on the road so that the rest of us don't have to pay as much for that? Yes, it does. Did you break the law? In most cases, yes, you did. In others, you can contest the ticket.

Whether or not it makes money does not really apply if you did, indeed, speed, run a red light, or break any of the other traffic laws. The policeman was still correct in giving you a ticket, because you earned it as a consequence of your own actions, and those actions were a potential danger to others on the road. And stopping someone for speeding if they're speeding does not constitute abuse of police powers. Stopping someone for speeding if they're speeding is, in fact, a part of their job.

[TexasTheKid]

Originally Posted by Houston3

"but power corrupts, and those police will eventually turn against us"

That is what this is for....
Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Yeah, if you think the punishment's rough for speeding, try the punishment for shooting a cop. It doesn't matter how corrupt the cop is, all other cops will rally behind the man as if he's a hero. Look at notmeofficer's posts (he's a retired LA sheriff) and see how he blindly defends the illegal police corruption he also purports to disdain. It doesn't matter if the shooting is justified or not, your right to bear arms won't protect anyone from the full weight of the flat-footed army and their arsenal.

[The Man in SATX]

Here is the way I look at it..

Both of you all are talking about the police handling traffic tickets.. well according to the OP's original Idea on this post "the police no longer fight crime" it is more or less .. that they have relegated themselves to just making money for the city.

If you have an issue other then being pulled over for speeding, or something else that has nothing to do with crime (meaning those things that are done to either injure someone personally or financially). Crime enforcement really doesnt happen. Most of the city cops (small and big) are more into fighting crime by pulling over cars for speeding.. it takes less time to do this and is beneficial for the department.

Now dont get me wrong.. I am sure there are departments that actually still take pride in protecting their citizens.. but the $$ crunch has dictated what the cops do these days.. focus on traffic tickets. If they do not do that.. then city talks begin about cutting the force. More or less a catch-22.

I can tell you from a personal stand point.. I dont feel the cops are capable of defending anyone.. thats why at this time I have justified taking matters into my own hands.. I have called a few times (one time when I heard gun shots) and no one came.. not even to see if there was a corpse somewhere... go figure..

So basically what I am saying here is.. it is what it is.. the one thing for sure.. do not depend on someone else to help you out.. you are better at defending yourself then letting someone else handle it for you..

[blkgiraffe]

The police are corrupt! I'd rather take my chances with a criminal than a cop.

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by GayleTX

However..... it is very common and not just a coincidence that a large number of those cars that are stopped for a 'routine traffic violations' such as speeding or expired stickers are driven by wanted criminals or by people transporting illegal drugs or people who were 'impaired.' Experienced law enforment officers have a built-in gut-sense 'radar' about which 'speeders' they need to check out. ...it's not always just a random 'speed-trap' stop when they pull someone over. We saw that happen over and over on I-40 when we lived near it....and I appreciated every one of those 'routine stops' that got the thugs off the road.

It's the same with stopping these loud, thumping boom cars for noise violations. Many times, when they pull these people over they'll find they have outstanding warrants against them. NYC's Operation Silent Night campaigns have proved very successful, in this regard, despite complaints from citizens that it's a waste of police time to hunt down these noise offenders. It's like killing two birds with one stone.