State senator wants to outlaw plastic grocery bags in Texas (buy, school)

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by redclay45

THL...You are fast... I thought about my post and then deleted it... In response to your comment though,, No it is not my justification.... I do not for the life of me see where regulating or legislating the no more use of plastic bags is having to do with the day to day details of peoples lives.. If it happened it is for the good of the planet,, not to cause you or me a problem. It is not personal,, at least I do not think it is...

And for those who do not now know what is going on here,, I had posted about the possible legislating of the credit card companies who now want to gouge us with all kind of added interest rates... If they do, and I hope to goodnees they do something about those crooks,, I see it as very much a part of the day to day details of people's lives.. In fact , much more than the use of a plastic bag, that ends up sooner or later in land fill, or as someone mentioned, in the bottom of the ocean.. Other than making our lives easy as we are used to plastic,, it serves no purpose.. Why I remember not all that many years ago, when paper bags were used,, and by golly,, I was quite happy with them.. They made good fire starters,and playtime for my two cats... I was sorry to see the paper bags go out of use myself.. More practical to me...

Hi RedClay!

Thanks for your earlier nice words, and you seem like a very intelligent and reasonable man, and that is to be appreciated, sir.

Anyway, can we back up here a bit? Before getting into the credit card thing? (which is worthy of discussion too), lets keep with the plastic bag issue.

You justify it in the name of that it is "good for the planet". My lord, is there literally ANYTHING that cannot be regulated/banned in the name of such a vague and emotive phrase?

And hey...I too fondly remember the days of the old paper sacks! You are right, they made great fire-starters and with holes cut in them made neat little "masks" for our kids! LOL

BUT? Those things too had their price if one wants to put into purely environmental terms. Hell...somewhere up the line they meant more of those precious trees being cut down. Plastic was a bit more practical and easy. AND, if one wanted to recycle, it was easier to put the coke and beer cans into plastic bags than paper ones! Plus, easier to line a trash can and carry it out (remember how we used to line them with newspaper?). Also, they made for great "mulch" bags...which in turn lent to more productive gardens and etc.

Point is, someone can make a case for banning paper sacks too...

Gotta quit for now...trying to download some more good Christmas music!

[redclay45]

TexasReb.. You are rght,, even an arguement for paperbags,, but at least a tree can be re-planted and a forrest re-built... Anyways,, I look at it this way,, no one, or not many wanted to listen years ago, when some talked of the mess our economy would be in if we did not begin to change our attitudes on money, lending and borrowing. Many were accused of almost being anti_American for daring to think that we might not be doing things the right way.. Well, take a look today cause no one wanted to listen and most thought there was no way we could be wrong ... Wonder , could that happen to the planet also.... Plastic bags do not do one good thing for the planet, but they do make our lives easier and convinient.... Enjoy your Christmas music..

On this topic though,

[wehotex]

Originally Posted by stan4

Yeah...I agree...can we go back to glass bottles/containers? The plastic bottles are out of control.

The problem that I have with glass bottles is that ppl will throw them onto parking lots and create even more messes with broken shards everywhere. This was very common at one time. Plastic bottles are safer, but a deposit on them would be a good move.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by redclay45

Plastic bags do not do one good thing for the planet, but they do make our lives easier and convinient.... Enjoy your Christmas music..

Well, there are a lot of things that "don't do one good thing for the planet" Cars are one that come to mind..

However, nearly everything is a matter of trade-offs in terms of cost/benefit.

I am not saying you are one of these, but something that always struck me a bit about those environmentalists who worship Mother Earth is that they also sure seem to believe "she" is a fragile deity! LOL

Anway, not trying to be flippant, but many of those who want to radically alter the way people live by intrusive and nit-picky legislation do so upon very limited information and knowledge. The Global Warming thing is a good example.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by wehotex

The problem that I have with glass bottles is that ppl will throw them onto parking lots and create even more messes with broken shards everywhere. This was very common at one time. Plastic bottles are safer, but a deposit on them would be a good move.

So reinstate the nickel deposit return for every glass bottle turned in. That used to work - when I was very young and this was in effect here, you saw precious few of the bottles that you could get a nickle for on parking lots or roadsides.

I am not saying you are one of these, but something that always struck me a bit about those environmentalists who worship Mother Earth sure seem to believe "she" is a fragile deity! LOL

Anway, not trying to be flippant, but many of those who want to radically alter the way people live by intrusive and nit-picky legislation do so upon very limited information and knowledge. The Global Warming thing is a good example.

Yep, they don't seem to get the real meaning of "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature."

Many people who want to control others "for their own good" justify it on the basis of limited or flawed information. They only look at what says what they want to believe and refuse to look at the rest of the story. It's more comforting that way, somehow.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Many people who want to control others "for their own good" justify it on the basis of limited or flawed information. They only look at what says what they want to believe and refuse to look at the rest of the story. It's more comforting that way, somehow.

Or, in many cases, simply want to feel good about themselves. That is, that they are "doing something" about (this or that "problem") whether or not what they "do" (which almost always involves control of other peoples lives and decisions) actually works. Here is a great column and excerpt on the general subject by Thomas Sowell:

T.S. Eliot understood this more than half a century ago when he wrote: "Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves."

RealClearPolitics - Commentary - "Us" or "Them" by Thomas Sowell

[TexasHorseLady]

That's an interesting quote, TexasReb, and very current. Now I'm going to have to go dig out the context!

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

That's an interesting quote, TexasReb, and very current. Now I'm going to have to go dig out the context!

That has always been one of my "favorite historical quotes." Ranks with the one by George Orwell which goes something like: "There are some things only an intellectual can believe. No ordinary man could be such a damn fool."

Hmmmm...I never have thought about actually researching the historical context (although like you say, it is timeless in its application). Let me know what you find out about it!

[redclay45]

I think we may be getting carried away here,, We have gone from talking of outlawing use of plastic bags to are enviornmentalists nuts..)))) I find it interesting that we have veered away a bit from the topic.. Other than folks not liking the idea of being " Told" they cannot use them, no one has said they are not bad for the planet... We can quote all the " Intellectuals" we want, but we need to perhaps know what they man wants to Legislate the use or not use of them.. What are the basis for his wanting to do this.. We all talk of not wanting to be a nanny state, that is our arguement, in this whole discussion.....??? Lets maybe talk of what they are or are not doing to the planet. Makes more sense to me.... Otherwise we are just going around and around, with " Philosophical points of view," but no facts

[redclay45]

TexasReb... This comment is off topic totally, but I loved your quote by George Orwell,....."

That has always been one of my "favorite historical quotes." Ranks with the one by George Orwell which goes something like: "There are some things only an intellectual can believe. No ordinary man could be such a damn fool." It so brought to my mind the "Intellectuals" who believed , apparently the whole " Weapons of Mass Distruction"

I know it is off topic, but I just so thought your quote would surely fit there, given what we know now.. I must remember that quote, had not read of it before. Thank you....