Do Texas natives consider Texas the South or Midwest (moving, authority)

[texdav]

Neither I consider it to be the southwaest and the beginning of the west culture.It has nothing really in comon with the midwest and only sightly with the real south.

[Frodo2008]

Originally Posted by LAnative10

When I think of Southwest, I think of the area from west Texas to Southern California (not counting LA and San Diego, thats the Pacific Coast). Its more than a geographic region, its a culture. If we look at it as a culture, I would not put Dallas or Houston in that reigion. I would however put Fort Worth, Austin, and San Antonio in that region. I do think of it as seperate from the South. I cant for a moment say Texas is a "southern" state culturally. Yes it is geographically, but most of it is not culturally. El Paso and Atlanta have nothing in common culturally. Heck, Fort Worth and Atlanta have nothing in common culturally. Dallas and Houston are more southern, but they are both so big and so full of transplants from other parts of the country and the world that (like Atlanta), its hard to get nail them to a particular culture.

Yeah geographically I agree that the southwest is far west TX to southern CA. This area is desert and mountains. From trans-pecos TX to Palm Springs, CA it's desert and mountains. So landscape-wise this is definitely the southwest. Here in Houston the scenery is a lot different. We have the beach to the south and the piney woods to the north and a whole lot of concrete in between.

[Frodo2008]

Originally Posted by solytaire

The only way I see that Texas isnt Southern (as in Southeastern) is if someone compares Texas directly to Mississippi or Alabama...

but when I survey the nation from WEST to EAST (not from east to west) there is no doubt that Texas is at least the beginning of the South. Which then makes it a part of the South IMO.

You're exactly right. I've been to LA and I've been to SF. In CA if you ask people about TX they think of TX as the south. I saw a statistic a while back. 83% of Texans consider themselves to be southerners. In VA (another fringe southern state) 87% of Virginians consider themselves to be southerners. So TX and VA definitely identifies with the south.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Frodo2008

You're exactly right. I've been to LA and I've been to SF. In CA if you ask people about TX they think of TX as the south. I saw a statistic a while back. 83% of Texans consider themselves to be southerners. In VA (another fringe southern state) 87% of Virginians consider themselves to be southerners. So TX and VA definitely identifies with the south.

Here are the surveys you may be talking about, Frondo (although there may be more recent ones):

From the Southern Focus Poll, covering a span of 7 years:

Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses)

Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411)

West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C. 7 (15)

Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses)

Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838) South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791)

From the Annals of the Association of American Geographers, In Vol. 7, Number 3 of this journal (September 1987), in the article Changing Usage of Four American Regional Labels, Professor James R. Shortridge (Department of Geography, University of Kansas) seeks, through a statistically random analysis of identification cards sent out with a product, to identify contemporary trends of regional self-identification in terms of the four labels “East”, “West”, “South”, and “Midwest.” Here is a ranked list in terms of percentage of people who chose “South” as their primary regional identification.

More than 75%: 1. Louisiana – 194/199 – 97.49% 2. Mississippi – 72/75 – 96% 3. Alabama – 122/130 – 93.85% 4. Florida – 244/277 – 88.09% 5. Georgia – 147/168 – 87.5% 6. Tennessee – 156/190 – 82.11%

More than 50%: 1. Arkansas – 56/77 – 72.73% 2. South Carolina – 66/91 – 72.53% 3. Texas – 526/739 – 71.18% 4. North Carolina – 87/145 – 60%

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by solytaire

The only way I see that Texas isnt Southern (as in Southeastern) is if someone compares Texas directly to Mississippi or Alabama...

but when I survey the nation from WEST to EAST (not from east to west) there is no doubt that Texas is at least the beginning of the South. Which then makes it a part of the South IMO.

EXACTLY, Solytaire!

If one says Ft. Worth and Atlanta have little in common, I would agree in a lot of superfical ways. But what does Ft. Worth have in common with Santa Fe, New Mexico? Much less.

When considering regional affiliations, the natural tendency is to look at it from east to west. And, topographical similarities rather than the deeper ones of history and basic culture. Which are the real indices of association with other states in terms of defining regions.

What if it went the other direction?

If one walked from Georgia to California, then many things commonly considered classically Southern would fade out in west Texas. BUT...what if the same feller headed back from California to Georgia?

Cross the Texas state line and Southern Baptist Chruches and a Southern accent would suddenly become the norm. There would be Confederate monuments on court house lawns and grits -- if not served by default -- would at least be featured and people know what they are. The second person plural pronoun "y'all" and the use of "coke" as the generic for soft drink would become -- almost abruptly - a standard. And if was New Years Day? For sure, any open cafe in west Texas would feature black-eyed peas and cornbread. And these are only a few of the more obvious. .

Texas IS Texas, first and foremost. All agree on this. But it is Southern as well. Not in the way Alabama or Mississippi are. But still Southern in primary identity if it is placed within a region. And, as you say, it has to be considered in both directions.

[Soy Capitan]

South.

But geographically southwestern. *snicker*

[doctorjef]

Geography isn't simply where the area is located on a map, although that's important. It also involves climate, topography, flora and fauna. Contrast the near semi-arid climate of the Texas Hill Country with its yucca, scrub, rugged hills, usually dry climate to the Piney Woods with its southern pine forest vegetation, wetter climate and swampy-marshy areas. One is geographically Southwestern and has something in common with the more drastic Trans-Pecos; the other is continuous with the great pine forests of the Deep South.

[Bulldawg82]

Texas goes different ways, depending who you ask and what part of the Republic they are from. I'm from Copperas Cove (hill country) and we considered ourselves Western/SouthWestern. South Texas identifies with the southwest culture (as does El Paso), whereas Odessa/Midland/Lubbock n Amarillo area will usually id with Western culture. Southern sentimentalities will be prevalent in the east. North Texas seems to be more eclectic in how it identifies. It all depends on the person you talk to there (and to a certain degree, anywhere in Tx).

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

EXACTLY, Solytaire!

If one says Ft. Worth and Atlanta have little in common, I would agree in a lot of superfical ways. But what does Ft. Worth have in common with Santa Fe, New Mexico? Much less.

Im not so sure I agree. Fort Worth was a city that boomed because of the cattle and railroad industries. Both of those industries are part of the reason why the Southwest boomed the way it did (going back to the Gadsden Purchase). If you look at modern day Fort Worth, it has way more in common with Southwestern cities like ABQ and El Paso vs. a city like Atlanta or Nashville. Dallas on the other hand is more in line with a city like Atlanta. Its not really superficial, Fort Worth isnt Southern. You could certainly make an arguement that Dallas and Houston are southern, but not Fort Worth.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by solytaire

The only way I see that Texas isnt Southern (as in Southeastern) is if someone compares Texas directly to Mississippi or Alabama...

but when I survey the nation from WEST to EAST (not from east to west) there is no doubt that Texas is at least the beginning of the South. Which then makes it a part of the South IMO.

But if you survey the country from east to west, Texas is clearly the beginning of the Southwest.

Thus, it's neither - it's simply Texas. Why some people seem so danged determined to plug it into some other category (generally whichever one they, personally, would prefer that it be in) does befuddle me at times. What's the point? It's big enough to be five states, so it qualifies as its own region.