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I wonder how much of the manners thing is really an urban-rural/small town divide. Frankly, I've never noticed that much difference in city/urbanised populations in different regions of the country. I can't comment on small town places because I don't have enough experience, but I'm asking more based on other people's descriptions.
That is a VERY interesting question/observation, Doc!
Strangely enough (given my screen name which absolutely describes my outlook on things! LOL), my own children's mother (ex-wife) is a "yankee", and my present lady friend is not from the South (a pure Westerner...Colorado!). And some of my most serious relationships over the years have been with northern ladies. WOW! LOL
BUT...as it concerns the point you are making...it is interesting that most of them said the same thing when the subject came up!
That is, the common-denominator was (paraphrased and blended) went something like: Randy? What you call Southern manners and Northern ways, are what we think of as city and county manners.
And I confess that my visits up there (Kansas and Ohio, mostly) confirmed this. Both the ex's lived in small towns and (other than their yankee accents) I honestly never had anything but encountering friendly and good people. Nothing at all like the rude, pushy, obnxious, stereotypical, yankees I had prepared myself for! LOL
On the contrary, almost all I met were just good folks. Yeah, they talked funny...but they were nice. And yeah, they seemed to be a bit more "reserved" in casual conversation with strangers (such as small-talk in grocery store lines), but all in all, my experiences Up North were truly pleasant...
That is a hard thing for die-hard Texan and unreconstructed Southerner, to admit! *grins*
I realize I am very late getting in on this thread (which in nobody's loss, I am sure! LOL). Consequently, I can only make random observations and comments. Which, by nature, might be out of the general "flow" of things.
So, asking forgiveness ahead of time, I will just start with this one.
Mary, your phone cell experience in NOT typical of Texas. If this one thing is what you are basing an opinion on as to the general nature of Texans/Southerners, then it is very flawed.
What do you mean, if we dont get out way 100% time, we throw a temper tantrum? Can you elaborate a bit on that broad statement...?
I work in retail, I could practically write a book on the subject of rude people. I know it's a two way street as half my job is spent telling my employees not to have inappropriate conversations, not to text or be on the phone in front of customers etc.
I believe in good service, and I also believe it is on the decline. I've been cursed at, I've had coworkers cursed at, at my previous job a customer threw a handful of coins at my boss.
I've had people throw fits because I am required to ID them for cigarettes and alcohol. Granted I'm not ID'ing someone with a headfull of grey, these are people in the mid twenties to early thirties. I've had people get mad because there was one person with a handful of thing ahead of them in line and they believe they should not have to wait at all. If there were lines three to four people deep or some huge order I could sympathize, who hasn't been there? People get mad when I have to see ID for a check, when really it's for their own damn good. These things happen all the time, and god forbid if at my store we told the customers no cell phones during check out. Honestly the best way to describe it is adults acting like children. The complete inability to take no for an answer.
However I do have a lot of wonderful customers that I've known for years. I know whats going on their lives, and watch their kids grow. I've even made regulars out of customers that all the other employees thought were just a pain in the you know where.
No, but I have heard us referred to as crackers, rednecks, hillbillies, backward, ignorant, inbreed, etc. Almost by default, it seems, in many cases.
Not saying you personally feel this way, but (and I may do it someday) stack up the ratio of slurs against Texas/South as compared to how often we use the apellation "yankee".
And that is a subject unto itself. Just as humor or "manners" is very hard to translate across regional lines, so goes the use of "yankee."
It has been oft discussed before, but believe it or not, it is really NOT wanting to start another War Between the States. Nor a derogatory term, necessarily. It's use really depends on situation and context.
Most of the time, it is innocuous. Yankee is simply a part of the historical Southern vernacular. Hell, in the northeast, many proudly refer to themselves as yankees. And I am sure they have good reasons.
In Texas/South, the fact one is not from here often makes on a "yankee"...but usually in the same general and harmless sense that a red-headed fellow gets nicknamed "red". Or a blond a "blondie" or "cottontop"
Sure, sometimes it IS used in a derogatory manner...but in these cases, there is almost invariably extreme provocation/good reason for doing do. That is, in the case of northerners moving down here and presuming to tell us how things were so much better where they came from. Presume to instruct us on our backward ways. Even though, they had to move down here to get a job!
My own kids are "half-yankee"...some of my best friends are full-blown blue-bellies....but I'll be dammed if I will listen to a lecture from someone who fled from the land they ruined, and tell US how to do things right. Yes, those types are damyankees.
If that makes me backward and provincial, so be it!
I hasten to add, though, Farouche, I am not speaking of you, personally. Not in the least. You strike as a very reasonable and intelligent person who made some very astute observations. So please pardon me if it came out that way!
Hi, TexasReb,
Sorry it took me so long to respond.
It's been a while since I've been back here, due to family health issues.
I take no offense at your post, Tex, and I must say that I agree with your observations.
If you've read some of my other posts, you'll see that I have commented on the vast amount of prejudice against southerners that I see often in the mainstream media and sometimes from my fellow northerners.
I can't understand the degree of hostility I've seen at times from fellow New Englanders toward the South.
However, as much as I've observed and noted stereotypes directed toward the South, I've also noticed that there is no blanket term, equivalent to "Yankee" (such as "Rebel"), which is used to describe anyone from the more southern regions of the US.
There is "Southerner," of course, but that is, in and of itself, a neutral label.
On many occasions where the term "Yankee" is used, the intention is a bit pejorative. There may be just a hint of passive-aggressive condescension, but it's detectable.
You're correct that derogative descriptions such as "crackers, rednecks, hillbillies, backward, ignorant, inbred, etc." have often been directed toward Southerners, and that kind of prejudice is just silly and unfair.
On the other hand, those labels aren't used as PC-acceptable mainstream forms of address in the same manner that Yankee is.
Your explanation that Yankee isn't always used in a derogative manner and is applied often in the way that "blondie" is for blondes and "red" is for redheads was enlightening (although I got really tired of being called "blondie" when I was younger and had a best friend who just hated being called "red" )
I guess what it really comes down to is that, whether these terms are directed in a way that is meant to be disparaging or not, maybe we don't always want to be reminded of our "differences." Maybe we'd, and I mean by "we" people in general, don't always want to be singled out and reminded that we are somehow different and separate. Perhaps we'd just like to think that we belong, and when terms like these are used, for whatever reason, we are reminded that we really don't belong as much as we'd like to think that we do. I guess that's why these terms are more acceptable when people use them for themselves, which is usually when they want to highlight their differences to gain some form of self-determined social currency, rather than used by others, which is usually when those differences are exaggerated and negatively categorized.
So, Tex, I want to thank you for your answer.
I hope I haven't split too many hairs here.
I know many will probably disagree with me, but I'm happy for the debate.
I think it's important to remember that overseas we are all Yankees.
Quite a thing to ponder, isn't it?
Good things about the northeast: It's only 2000 miles from Texas! LOL Just joking.
Let's see the scenery in NH and ME is very good. I really like the scenery in both of those states. I like all the history in the Boston area. Lexington and Concord MA are pretty cool. Downtown Boston is cool with all the history stuff. Newport, RI was very cool to visit. I was dreaming with my eyes open. Vermont is the maple state. That's a good thing because I like maple syrup. I've been to Vermont. It's another nice state. I love the way the churches look in New England. They all have those cool looking steeples. I enjoyed Salem, MA. I enjoyed all the witch stuff. Every time I sit on a broom handle I can't seem to get it to work. I would like to visit NYC some time. By the way I don't have anything against northeasterners unlike a lot of people.
Sorry it took me so long to respond.
It's been a while since I've been back here, due to family health issues.
I take no offense at your post, Tex, and I must say that I agree with your observations.
If you've read some of my other posts, you'll see that I have commented on the vast amount of prejudice against southerners that I see often in the mainstream media and sometimes from my fellow northerners.
I can't understand the degree of hostility I've seen at times from fellow New Englanders toward the South.
However, as much as I've observed and noted stereotypes directed toward the South, I've also noticed that there is no blanket term, equivalent to "Yankee" (such as "Rebel"), which is used to describe anyone from the more southern regions of the US.
There is "Southerner," of course, but that is, in and of itself, a neutral label.
On many occasions where the term "Yankee" is used, the intention is a bit pejorative. There may be just a hint of passive-aggressive condescension, but it's detectable.
You're correct that derogative descriptions such as "crackers, rednecks, hillbillies, backward, ignorant, inbred, etc." have often been directed toward Southerners, and that kind of prejudice is just silly and unfair.
On the other hand, those labels aren't used as PC-acceptable mainstream forms of address in the same manner that Yankee is.
Your explanation that Yankee isn't always used in a derogative manner and is applied often in the way that "blondie" is for blondes and "red" is for redheads was enlightening (although I got really tired of being called "blondie" when I was younger and had a best friend who just hated being called "red" )
I guess what it really comes down to is that, whether these terms are directed in a way that is meant to be disparaging or not, maybe we don't always want to be reminded of our "differences." Maybe we'd, and I mean by "we" people in general, don't always want to be singled out and reminded that we are somehow different and separate. Perhaps we'd just like to think that we belong, and when terms like these are used, for whatever reason, we are reminded that we really don't belong as much as we'd like to think that we do. I guess that's why these terms are more acceptable when people use them for themselves, which is usually when they want to highlight their differences to gain some form of self-determined social currency, rather than used by others, which is usually when those differences are exaggerated and negatively categorized.
So, Tex, I want to thank you for your answer.
I hope I haven't split too many hairs here.
I know many will probably disagree with me, but I'm happy for the debate.
I think it's important to remember that overseas we are all Yankees.
Quite a thing to ponder, isn't it?
You're exactly right. English people also known as Brits call all Americans Yankees no matter what part of the country they're from. So we're all Yankees. There's nothing wrong with that.
Don't know if Delaware counts, but here we have beautiful woods and rivers in the north, with beautiful autumn colour that can rival New England's. In the south we have the Atlantic beaches with all their white sand and deep blue Atlantic water. Throughout the centre and south of the state we have marshes, ponds and wetlands that are teaming with life and which are especially sanctuaries for great flocks of migratory birds. Almost a quarter of the state is covered in water -- bays, rivers, ponds, canals, marshes. We have fields of corn on the rolling hills of the north and wide expanses of all kinds of crops in the coastal plain of the south. It's a little republic very rich in nature, with friendly people and decent state government.
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Sorry It Took Me So Long
