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Old 06-14-2007, 09:11 AM
 
Location: friendswood texas
2,489 posts, read 7,210,932 times
Reputation: 3102

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCBeaches View Post
So, in say, 20 years, Toledo may either be a ghost town or an Ohio suburb of Detroit?
Toledo already is a "suburb" of Detroit. I grew up there, moved away when i was first married, went back then finally got out for good. Now in Texas. My entire family still lives there and seem happy but they have also never left or seen anything different to realize how bad it is getting. Small independent businesses are becoming a thing of the past. Look at all the vacant store fronts. Toledo and its residents are aging. The only business that is increasing is the medical field. The elderly population is growing and the town is losing all its youth. The city needs to find something to keep all the college graduates there. There is no night life, there is no real "arts" scene. etc... (Please don't give me we have parks, the art museum the zoo etc... I know all this already. Yes they are wonderful but that is all there is to do.)Toledo at heart is still a blue collar town with blue collar mentality. Until the city can rid itself on its dependence on the jeep plant and expand its horizons, it will continue its downward spiral. Its very sad. My family wants me to come home to visit (actually they would be happier if I moved back) but I just can't. It is depressing to see what was once a vital city looking so rundown, knowing that as a graduate of UT that I couldn't even find a decent paying job there. That's my two cents.
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
123 posts, read 560,576 times
Reputation: 79
I have to agree with most of you on your thoughts about the Toledo area.

I just recently moved away from Toledo after 3 long years there. I now live in Tempe, AZ, and am originally from Annapolis, MD.

Toledo is a dull, stagnant city. From the overwhelming abundance of vacant factories, warehouses, and commercial buildings, it was at one time a thriving manufacturing hub, with abundant jobs, like some mention before. The employment situation in Toledo is regrettable, with few blue collar jobs, and very few jobs available for white collar professionals. Crime and urban decay is on the increase. This town compares to other has-been manufacturing burgs like Flint, MI or Detroit. Toledo is often referred to as "little Detroit".

As someone mentioned, there were 4 large very busy shopping malls in Toledo, once well supported and profitable. Now, only 1 remains (Franklin Park/Westfield Shoppingtowne). This has in fact happened very quickly within the past 10 years. With three struggling, mostly vacant malls, instead of putting effort into re-vamping or removing the malls completely, they have built 2 new mega-malls in the suburbs of Maumee and Perrysburg, 1 is open, the other still under construction (going on 6 years now) with mostly mega nationwide chains occupying them.

Most businesses here have gone from small family operated establishments to mega chains. Small business operation there is very difficult, due to the fact that it is nearly impossible to compete with the mega chains.

Downtown Toledo is a crime infested, concrete nightmare. There have been some great things done to try to re-vitalize the downtown in the past, (5/3 Field, and most recently the new I-280 bridge), but it seems they are more concerned with "prettying" up the city than helping the job and economy crisis here.

My theory on the cheap housing market here is, simply put, this is an undesirable place to live, so housing is cheap. Also, most of the available jobs here are low salary ($8-$10/hour), so people cannot afford expensive housing. I recently saw a house for sale in east Toledo for $9,000, and it was labeled as "move right in, many updates". That would be un-heard of in most areas.

Someone with a steady, professional job can make it here comfortably-- in Toledo, this consists of health care people and bankruptcy lawyers. Local Jeep employees live comfortably, but their jobs are very unstable. There seems to be a huge wage gap here, either people live in the ghetto, or in $300K houses (alot of house in Toledo)-- nothing in between.

Toledo is on a continous downward sprial. With a mayor that cannot get his head out of his ass, (check out toledoblade.com), and the employment and economy situation stagnant, there seems to be little light at the end of the tunnel.

I moved there on a job transfer, and it is the worst mistake I ever made. Though I have many friends there now, who have told me of Toledo's plight then and now, I may visit, but will never again live there. The monotony of daily life there coupled with the fixation on eating, drinking and OSU football that most residents have is just about suicide inducing. With little or no culture, little activities available that dont cost a fortune or take a week to do, be prepared to be very bored living there.

I was fortunate enough to be able to move away, and I would not recommend moving to Toledo to anyone until it gets its head out of its ass and starts working on the real problems it has. I dont have much to say for the rest of Ohio, but living in Toledo has soured my Ohio experience so bad, I did not want to mess with the rest of the state.
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Old 06-15-2007, 11:01 AM
 
2,153 posts, read 5,536,972 times
Reputation: 655
The whole problem with cities such as Toledo is that they are run extremely poorly.

You can't say Toledo is in a bad location where nobody likes to live, look at Columbus 2 hours away. It is thriving. Places like Youngstown, Cleveland, Detroit, Toledo, etc... should be cutting taxes on businesses like no other, just to get companies to move in. Once you get companies moving there, jobs start coming, people start coming.

The problem comes when you have leadership that doesn't understand the benefits of tax cuts abd diversifying your industries

I think someone posted ealier that it is a growing medical and research area. That is definitely a good place to start for growth
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Burkina Faso
422 posts, read 758,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiptonGuy View Post
Something to consider:

At one time, the Toledo-metro area was able to support 4 LARGE (indoor) Shopping Malls. And all 4 had movie theatres too !

1. Northtowne Mall
2. Woodville Mall
3. Southwyck Mall
4. Franklin Park Mall

Franklin Park (now called Wesfield Shopping Center) is doing well.

Northtowne Mall is closed. The parking lot space filled with thousands of Jeep vehicles, fresh off the assembly line. The former Montgomery Wards wing, is occupied by 21st Century Fitness (health club).

Southwyck Mall has about 70% vacancy.

Woodville Mall has about 80% vacancy.
Actually this is one point I disagree with. Franklin Park mall underwent an expansion, and business there is booming. The new outdoor mall in Perrysburg is undergoing an expansion, and a new mall is being built at U.S. 24/I-475.

Southwyck has been decrepit since Montgomery Ward left, and that was 10 years ago. Northtown mall has always been decrepit since I was in Toledo, from 1995. I went there once and it was a dump. I've never been to Woodville. Franklin Park was always decent.

Now Franklin Park is very good (and I say this as someone whose been to a lot of big city malls, hell I live behind Easton the best mall in the state - Franklin Park holds its own). The new mall in Maumee will be way better than Southwyck has been in recent history, and after the expansion the Perrysburg mall will hold its own. And yes, all three will have movie theaters.

[As a quick aside: a movie theater at Dussel Drive, a movie theater at U.S. 24, and a movie theater at Dixie Hwy. All multiplexes. All built in the last 10 years. All next to a 6 mile stretch of I-475. ZOMG! O_O ]

That's pretty good, considering the population in the Toledo region has been flat, and the mall business has taken a beating over the past 20 years, as low cost strip malls with big box stores took away a lot of the mall (especially the department store) business. Best example of this is how closely the rise of Spring Meadows parrellels the decline of Southwyck just to the east.

Last edited by Paddington; 06-16-2007 at 04:48 PM..
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Old 06-16-2007, 08:02 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
2,107 posts, read 5,082,854 times
Reputation: 1302
Default Toledo and Other Ohio Cities

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWayOut View Post
I dont have much to say for the rest of Ohio, but living in Toledo has soured my Ohio experience so bad, I did not want to mess with the rest of the state.
For the time I have spent in Toledo (usually a Saturday a couple times in the past year and only in parts around Sylvania and Wood-something high school (north side of town), it reminds me of parts of Dayton. Both are old midwestern auto towns that seem to have had it rough in the past few decades. Yet, I think Toledo has it worse because its downtown hasn't begun to turnaround as Dayton's had. Dayton also built a 5/3rd Field and its done amazingly well. The city is even exploring a shopping and entertainment complex to be built next door. Many of the South Dayton neighborhoods have seen new development and rehabs. The city also profits from tech and health care as the Air Force Base is nearby (yet when BRAC comes, people sure do sweat it). As far as the suburbs go, it felt like the exact same thing here but on a smaller scale.

Then there is the rest of Ohio, I can comfortably tell you that central and SW Ohio are doing well. Otherwise, I'm sorry Toledo gave you such a bad impression of the state. Yet I can also understand why that is.

As for the forum topic, I have to say Toledo has its work cut out for it. The city will need some drastic changes to its morale or all its going to have left is a decaying suburban ring that tries to ignore the cities death as long as possible. Those who are smart will leave for greener pastures. If the city begins to turn around similar to Dayton, then maybe the future will be brighter. Still, I think Dayton has profitted from its distance from Cincy, and I think Toledo will have to rely on Detroit for something similar. As you probably see, Cincy and Detroit are two different animals. For one, Detroit isn't growing towards Toledo as Cincy is to Dayton. Oh well, I guess 20 years could change things (hopefully).
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Old 06-19-2007, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Ohio
138 posts, read 979,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetcreed View Post
because tennesse is so much better? right?

Who said anything about Tennesse ?
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Vienna, VA near Washington, DC
5 posts, read 24,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCBeaches View Post
I was born in Toledo but grew up in outlying Waterville on the Maumee River. Back in the 1960's - early 1980's downtown Toledo was still somewhat active. I remember shopping downtown at Tiedtke's, LaSalle's, the Lion Store, and Lamson's with my mom and Grandma when I was little....loved eating at the lunch counter at Woolworth's too! Going to the Art Museum and zoo were a real treat. Later they built the riverfront shopping complex (can't remember the name of it) but it never quite seemed to get off the ground...was always pretty empty. I moved away in 1984 (to coastal SC) and was shocked to see what Toledo had become when I went back for visits in the later 80's and 1990's. Downtown, which used to be full of life and excitement, was/is now pretty much a ghost town. Franklin Park Mall seems to be the only real place to shop anymore. And, according to my cousins who still live there, there isn't anything to do there unless you go to bars or like bowling. The only family I have left there are soon planning to move to FL.
It's sad to see an entire city drying up and withering away...
I totally agree with everything everyone has said here; I have lived overseas in Europe, in GA, and MD. Each place had its plusses and minuses, but all were better than Toledo. I now live in a No VA suburb of DC, Vienna. Even with the high cost of housing and our traffic snarls, I would NEVER go back to Toledo to live unless there was a miracle of sorts. It's SO DEPRESSING; I am a UT grad, and every time I go back to visit my dad and a few relatives the city seems to have died a little more. My mom has recently brought up retiring there, but I've told her we simply would not do so. For one thing, although the summers are nice, the winter is cold and FOREVER it seems. In VA, we have a real winter, but it ends in mid or late Feb. The economic situation and the shabbiness (in some cases downright awfulness) of some areas which used to be lovely (the Colony, Polish Village, Birmingham on the Eastside) are very sad indeed. I also noticed the vast abundance of seniors but fewer younger folks each time. It's a shame; I sometimes miss my relatives and the great restaurants there (Mancy's or Tony Packo's anyone?). I love the Toledo Museum of Art (took the Sat. program there as a kid) and the zoo, but there's not much else there. The shopping is nothing spectacular either. My current locale has all the luxury stores, plus great outlet centers too. I guess living where I do has spoiled me a lot. Please understand I am not trying to be snotty here, I'm just telling it as I've seen it. Vienna, VA, my current abode, was recently rated as one of the best places to live in the nation by Money Magazine. But I digress.

Back to Toledo, the irrefutable facts are that the city refuses to change with the times or do enough to attract businesses. They simply will not do anything (like tax incentives)that will attract employers to the area. That with the high utilities, labor conditions, etc. will continue to hasten Toledo's demise. No wonder employers used to laugh and nod whenever I told them why I entered the Army after college---"I wanted to escape Toledo, Ohio."
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:24 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
2,107 posts, read 5,082,854 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skimom53 View Post
I guess living where I do has spoiled me a lot. Please understand I am not trying to be snotty here, I'm just telling it as I've seen it. Vienna, VA, my current abode, was recently rated as one of the best places to live in the nation by Money Magazine. But I digress.

We used to live in NoVa, Dale City. I know it is not as nice as Vienna and its surrounding areas, but it was still rich compared to most parts of the country. The point is, the wealth made NoVa too expensive and we moved out here to suburban Beavercreek(Dayton). We've never looked back besides visiting family in Bowie (talk about sad, look at PG County), and Northern MD suburbs.

Bringing this back to Toledo, to anyone out there reading this, please don't assume Ohio is as depressing as Toledo. To the people of Toledo, no offense as Dayton, and Washington for that matter, have their own problems. After driving through Toldedo on surface streets and highways, if Toledo doesn't solve these problems in the next ten to twenty years, they'll fade to nothing with little chance of being able to return to its heydays. Thus, as a young adult, I know I would never move to Toledo, and I'm doubtful Toledo could even have a job for me. Again, Dayton and its suburbs as well as larger cities like Columbus and Cincinnati are in better shape, and their suburbs remind me of NoVa without the price and traffic. Thus why we stayed here.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Midwest
1,903 posts, read 7,898,423 times
Reputation: 474
Deadmalls on Southwyck: Dead Malls dot Com: Feature: Southwyck Mall: Toledo, Ohio

Dayton, Toledo, and Youngstown are all going down. Akron is on alert.
Ohio is great if you like to live out in the countryside, but then dozens of other states have excellent rural areas.

Ohio is a largely urbanized state, yet its cities are pitiful.
As I keep saying, the UrbanOhio guys are delusional: Ohio does not have hip cities and may never have them.
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:33 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
2,107 posts, read 5,082,854 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by M TYPE X View Post
Deadmalls on Southwyck: Dead Malls dot Com: Feature: Southwyck Mall: Toledo, Ohio

Dayton, Toledo, and Youngstown are all going down. Akron is on alert.
Ohio is great if you like to live out in the countryside, but then dozens of other states have excellent rural areas.

Ohio is a largely urbanized state, yet its cities are pitiful.
As I keep saying, the UrbanOhio guys are delusional: Ohio does not have hip cities and may never have them.
So you are basing the health of cities off of failing malls? Ha! If that were the case, every metro in this country would be a hollow shell. We may not be the trend setting cities of NYC, LA, Chicago, but hek, some of us love our places for what they are and make best with it.

As for Dayton, hey, it has its pitfalls. But I'd like to counter with Dragon's Baseball, Schuster, Boonshoft, National Museum of the US Air Force, three vibrant and upscale shoping malls, Nutter Center, soccer tournaments, rec centers, numerous suburban developments, parks large and small, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Wright State, wonderful schools (barring maybe Dayton & Jefferson Twp.), comedy clubs, Victoria Theater, DCDC, wonderful local and national eateries, numerous historic neighborhoods, new entertainment centers in the works downtown, and a vibrant and continuously renewing University "District" (Brown St.) in UD. Yet Cincy and Columbus are no more than 1-1.25 hours away. If your single, maybe you'll find more action in another city, but I guarentee there are plenty of young professionals that come back here because they know its a wonderful (and cheaper) place to raise a family. Of course, I'm speaking of suburbs and certain Dayton neighborhoods (South Park, St. Anne's). Thus, exactly when was Dayton going down? I digress.

Sorry that wasn't about Toledo, but I felt I had to defend my city. Until people in Toledo can do the same, I have little doubt the city will crumble.
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